Why are people still deluding themselves about Michael Jackson??

[waxahatchee]

If any grown man I know invited children to sleep in his bed with him there would be absolutely no question about what was going on. I am sure that most people would agree, why are so many people still deluding themselves about this?? Makes me so cross, why do they even play his music on the radio??

enthusiasm I did google it, can only find tabloid sources (mail below and mirror) but it was a story from the mirror originally in 2013 which is strongly refuted here:
charlesthomsonjournalist.blogspot.com/2013/07/mirror-publishes-another-fraudulent.html

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6788767/Michael-Jackson-Sex-abuse-probe-dropped-President-Reagan-set-honor-singer.html

Bollocks Jessica, grooming can happen to anyone regardless of age.

Lots of posters on here are talking out of their arses - listen to the professionals that have posted on these MJ threads.

Educate yourselves.

Abducted in plain site is very good example of grooming and control

And so is dirty John. Both very powerful true stories .

HowlsMovingBungalow

Parents have a responsibility to keep their child safe. There’s no way in hell I would have let my child sleep in his bed while my room kept getting moved further and further away. That is not ‘grooming’ ffs and makes a mockery of the term.

Abducted in plain sight was fascinating, but the parents were disgusting individuals that had sexual relations with the man. Not groomed, just put their own desires above their child’s safety. It made me sick.

I think the responsibility for the abuse always lies with the abuser Jessica. Parents accepting compensation instead of putting their child through a court case doesn't change that. Nor is it any kind of defence to Jackson's abuse.

People are selfish... we as a society are slaves too money and this reflects that I'm afraid.

That, I agree with. The mere thought of taking money from my childhood abuser or my rapists, makes me feel incredibly ill. I could never. The idea my mother would take it... I mean, just no.

also: I don't agree with Trip that MJ is innocent, I suspect they know this, but they have a right to their opinion. even if it's wrong
Serious point though - you do need to fact check as far as you can when making claims or repeating them and people can agree to respectfully disagree/argue back and forth: that's how juries eventually come to a verdict.

JessicaWakefieldSVH have you watched the documentaries?
I´m just curious.
I don´t agree at all. Parents can be groomed. I agree that it sounds implausible to most parents when thought about.
However, many of the families (in both R Kelly and MJ docs) had high hopes for their children in showbusiness (and thats why they met the stars in the first place) and both stars said they wanted to help their children and did help them (a bit).

You do remember how it was with Michael Jackson? Everyone said he was weird, and childlike, he used to play with kids all the time and hang out with them. He said he was lonely, and didn´t have friends and came to their houses and acted like another child. And he was then of the biggest stars on the planet.
The fact so many people are still disbelieving the allegations shows how difficult it is to take that away from people. We want to believe he was innocent.

Jessica I feel the same.
But we all have family friends even family members who might be abusive.

Out of X amount of innocent uncles, aunts and grandparents who want DC to have sleepovers.

Most might be innocent. But I'm afraid a small percentage will not be.
Children are mostly likely to be abused by someone they know. The stranger danger campaign did damage because the enemy is more than likely to be within.

So saying ... stupid parents.... who would allow it.i I agree but I'm aware of this and always remain vigilant no matter who is in our lives. Including grandparents and family friend s

Nor is it any kind of defence to Jackson's abuse.

It’s not intended or implied as a defence. But if we really want an honest discussion on this, you cannot ignore all the adults around those children and how they allowed them to be in vulnerable positions in the first place, and took money rather than protect children from a pedophile. I’m a victim of abuse and it sickens me that adults do this. My teacher abused children for decades, in plain sight, and even when we told, nobody did a fucking thing. If you all are enraged about MJ but not the parents, sorry but you’re part of the problem to me. Pedophiles get away with this because other adults enable them. That is the truth and it doesn’t absolve any pedophile by stating that.

@JessicaWakefieldSVH grooming does indeed happen to adults. Why else do so many men gain access to children by entering into a relationship with women who have children? They are in essence grooming the mum.

When we reported one individual to the police and went through a 2 year police investigation (the CPS decided that there wasn't enough evidence to pursue it) the police officer who took our statements told my DM that she had been groomed as well as us. (I believe she had been groomed by my F as well.)

That helped her understand how it was that she failed to see what was happening under fact that so many things happened under her nose. (Although she's still struggling massively with guilt.)

Nor could I accept diya (blood money) but I accept that is from a standpoint of western privilege.

Absolutely Lizzie.

Hopefully nothing will ever happen to DH esp whilst DC are young but any new Man I'd watch like a hawk around DC.

We all currently have relationship s right now with a whole host of people close to us and our DC.

Some of those contacts could be abuser's.

A report said ages ago if we knew the true scale of child abuse in UK , whole country would be sickened.

No, it's not part of the problem to recognise that parents can be groomed and, also, cowardly. Especially when piss poor parenting is held against these children to suggest it makes them unreliable witnesses.

Anyone can be groomed and it’s rarely just one person who is

There is a reason why teams of professionals work with people of have personality disorders and have a history of manipulation, violence and abuse to keep themselves safe

They work on a completely different level, they will split families, professional teams, those around them often the process takes yes

MJ is text book

I can understand why the parents took the money. I'm not saying it's right, but it sets their child up for life and appears to be an admission of guilt. It also means the child doesn't have to go through the ordeal of testifying and having his experience picked apart by a baying public. There was no guarantee he would win the case, and imagine what it would have done to him to go through that and get a not guilty verdict. Juries aren't always rational where much loved celebs are concerned - look at the OJ case for proof of that.

All the people excusing MJ on here is astonishing.If there was a tape of him abusing kids,i bet most would say it was doctored and it wasnt him.

Lets be honest there's always been a bit of 'cult' around MJ with regards to his fans. I remember an MTV presenter years ago saying they had to be careful what they said about him because his fans were so bonkers, worse than any other group of fans. There was always a worry about what they might do.

There was also a Channel 4 documentary about some of them from the UK who went to support him at his trial, they gave up their jobs and sold their worldly possessions to afford it. When they talked about him it reminded me very much of when you see cult members being interviewed.

Im just watching part 2 now. I think Wades behaviour can be explained by the fact he was just so young when it started, it also started incredibly quickly. He was also "known" so needed to protect his reputation as much as Michaels. Not to mention Wades mums behaviour was incredibly questionable.

James's mum was more protective and more cautious so it was slower to develop.

I was on a jury years ago, and whilst i felt the person probably was guilty reasonable doubt is enough for you to have to give that not guilty verdict. Put enough doubt into that court room and you have to say not guilty, even if your feeling is they did it.

rage I sure do that. But despite our opposing opinions I find your posts to be the most respectable and reasoned. I don't hate you or think you're deluded pondlife either

@JessicaWakefieldSVH "I am not going to excuse any of the parents in this. If you accept money from someone who abused your child, and you give him freedom to carry on abusing, there is absolutely no excuse for it."
You have a very naive and simplistic black-and-white view of this. Many cases are advised to settle out of court, by police officers and child social service officers due to the trauma going to court would do to them. Have you any idea how the defence attorneys cross-examine victims? Even children?? It is BRUTAL! Some children are so traumatised by the abuse they are deemed by social services themselves, as not fit to testify in court. It is all easy to say I would not have done this, etc. Until you're in that situation, you just don't know.

"As for parents being groomed, I call BS on that too. We are all here outraged at how he could of gotten away when there were all these signs... and yet we think grown adults who are meant to protect their children, are not culpable because they were ‘groomed’? Grooming happens to children. Not adults." You are ill-informed on this. Grooming DOES INDEED happen to adults. In fact, the process of grooming adults has been described in court during Catholic priest/child sex abuse cases, where the priests starts a friendship with the victim's parents and family, goes to their house for dinner, offers help and guidance, and basically gets into favour or on the good side of the parents. It happens so so much I am surprised you didn't know about this.

What you are forgetting is that, as the documentary showed, the parents were overwhelmed by phone calls, visits, etc from Jackson. They were like stunned mullets. Of course you, I and the rest of us can say categorically we would never let it happen - however we weren't befriended by Jackson, were we? He was a cult-like figure who came across as a sweet innocent man. It is very easy to see how the parents were wooed by him. I'm sure the parents would have said the same as us. Before they met him. However, they met him, had him for dinners, sleepovers, holidays, etc. We didn't. We can't understand their experience.

@JessicaWakefieldSVH "The mere thought of taking money from my childhood abuser or my rapists, makes me feel incredibly ill. I could never. The idea my mother would take it... I mean, just no."
That is your view. As the daughter of a man who was molested by a priest in a Catholic orphanage, I have the complete opposite view. We seek compensation for falling over a footpath, or for being injured in a car crash. Molestation is an injury. Far far worse than suffering a broken collar bone in a car accident or fractured pelvis in a fall. The emotional INJURY is far far worse and lifelong. Compensation money can help with a lot of therapy.

NO ONE, no victim of child molestation, should ever, EVER be made to feel guilty for accepting rightful compensation. EVER!!!

Not just Catholic priests... gym teachers , scout leaders... teachers... priest's... uncles, aunts, grandparents....

Grooming is forming a relationship. Trust. It's as simple as that.

Luna I agree

It's cruel that people judged the abused boys for accepting money. it's compensation... how can anyone be compensated for lost childhood. We all know the damage it caused Michael