Why are people still deluding themselves about Michael Jackson??

[waxahatchee]

If any grown man I know invited children to sleep in his bed with him there would be absolutely no question about what was going on. I am sure that most people would agree, why are so many people still deluding themselves about this?? Makes me so cross, why do they even play his music on the radio??

To answer your headline because he is dead there is a chance he could have just been mentally unstable we will never know

He "dated" his niece from age nine? I'm just? What? Go play with your fucking dolls?

Why haven't Macaulay culkin and Brett never spoken against him?

Evan Chandler was depressed and cancer is a bastard.
He had also received abuse from fans for years because of the Jordy settlement.

The FBI afaik did not conduct their own investigation per se, rather they reviewed Terry George's claims and found them unsubstantiated.

vault.fbi.gov/Michael%20Jackson/Michael%20Jackson%20Part%2001%20of%2007/view

The new doc could not have been made were Michael alive, no. As to it being because a decade has passed, that would have meant pre production 2015, not sure when Reed decided on a reappraisal but he didn't interview Wade until Feb 2017. So, although you had the Chandler case 93-4 then the criminal case approx 10 years later 2005 there is no 10 year pattern with the doc

The documentary is problematic in that Reed said that Wade and James had been kept apart so they could not exchange stories but in his deposition December 2016 Wade said they had spoken two years earlier.

The court dismissed the claims because of Statute of Limitations reasons only

True.
But according to journalist Charles Thomson: in the lawsuit, Robson was caught lying under oath so brazenly that the judge threw out his entire witness statement and said no rational juror could ever believe his account.

www.reddit.com/r/MichaelJackson/comments/ay42cx/a_condensed_version_of_the_major_credibility/

The following is taken from Charles Thomson's statement above

Wade lied under oath and said he’d never discussed his allegations with anyone except his lawyers. When the Jackson estate discovered he’d actually been shopping books, the court ordered him to produce the drafts as evidence. They revealed the story of his abuse had changed significantly from one draft to the next.

Robson was also ordered to release his emails as evidence. He breached the order repeatedly, first by claiming they didn’t exist, then by simply refusing to hand them over. The emails showed Robson found one particular story from the early 1990s which specifically named him and his mother. He emailed it to his mother and asked whether it was true. She replied, ‘Wow, none of that is true’. He then included it in his story anyway.

Robson was also ordered to produce his diaries as evidence. In them, he’d written about how these allegations might rescue his failing career by making him ‘relatable and relevant’. He also wrote, ‘It’s time for me to get mine.’ When questioned under oath about what he’d meant when he wrote that, he refused to answer.

Going back to the 2005 trial Safechuck was never asked to testify for Jackson’s defence. The judge ruled long before the trial began that testimony could only be heard about certain children, and Safechuck was not one of them.
....................................................................................................................

None of the above means that either is lying about what they went through but it does go some way to explain why some people are still deluded/questioning the veracity of the documentary.

Why haven't Macaulay culkin and Brett ever spoken against him?

FOG (fear, obligation, guilt)
They would both be admitting to perjury in 2005
Denial
Not wanting to be seen/remembered as a victim
They weren't abused

Corey Feldman has changed his mind as well

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/michael-jackson-child-star-corey-feldman-says-he-can-no-longer-defend-singer-11658372

Did anyone see the mtv video of LaToya saying he was a paedophile and that as much as she loved her brother he was hurting children? I saw it on the daily mail website so I won’t link.

Yes I remember LaToya saying this and at the time, again, everyone dismissed it and her saying she was bitter / crazy.

''It comes to a point where as an advocate for victims, it becomes impossible for me to remain virtuous and not at least consider what's being said and not listen to what the victims are saying - this is very important.''

He is considering what is being said. How it should be.
I like Corey. He was chewed up and spat out by Hollywood and sadly, the statute of limitations meant his historical sexual abuse could not be prosecuted (same as Anthony Edwards).
He has not changed his own opinion of Jackson though based on his own encounters: ''I'm also not here to judge him, because again, he did not do those things to me and that was not my experience."

Hasten to add, if it were up to me there would be no statute of limitations for historical sexual abuse. Or for perjury for that matter.

None of the above means that either is lying about what they went through but it does go some way to explain why some people are still deluded/questioning the veracity of the documentary.

Agreed. Wade isn’t a credible person. I think others are. If you watch videos of Wade talking in interviews etc over the years, denying any abuse, he is just as convincing as he is in the recent doc. So I am not sure certain about him.

Rage It was, of course,Adrian that I commented on.

Yep, Evan was depressed. When somebody brought it up earlier (the comment I responded to) the poster, amongst other things related to the families, grooming or whatever, brought up the fact that two of the fathers had committed suicide. In such a way it was as if they were suggesting it was related. I was merely trying to point out that, certainly in Jordys case, the father was no saint (he attacked Jordy, as I'm sure Rage is aware.)

Elektra Cory hasn't exactly changed his mind. That's sensationalism again. With the position he holds on sexual abuse, his campaigns and fighting he cannot ignore any allegations, he has to listen and consider. He knows there are possibilities. His stance on his experience is the same. Its clearly broke him to have to say that he hasn't and cannot defend Michael because it would be wrong of him to ignore people who claim to have been abused, given his position and his own experiences with others. He does say they came across as believable. He's also clearly struggling with it and said its the hardest thing he's ever had to do. But to say he's gone and changed his position isn't quite right. Huge amount of respect to him, he was trying so hard not to break in the interview

Neither fathers' suicide had anything to do with their child's abuse.
Denis was bipolar and hanged himself after Wade's brother left to go to America. He would not have known of any abuse at that point.
Evan was depressed and ill. He treated Jordan poorly imho. He was estranged from Jordan.

Did anyone see the mtv video of LaToya saying he was a paedophile and that as much as she loved her brother he was hurting children?

Yes. As I commented this afternoon (13.38)
The tabloids are regurgitating footage from 1993 when LaToya denounced her brother. She later said she was lying because her abusive husband Jack Gordon, who called the press conference, forced her to. Gordon claimed La Toya had proof which she was prepared to disclose for a fee of $500,000. A bidding war between US and UK tabloids began, but fell through when they realized that her revelations were not what she had claimed them to be. According to La Toya, Gordon threatened to have siblings Michael and Janet killed if she didn't follow his orders. (source: wiki)

It's the truth of the lie again but casts doubt on her credibility - if she were to come forward now and repeat what she said back then, she will be publicly lynched in the same way Wade, James and Oprah have had backlash from the fandom. By the same token, she claims to be a victim of abuse who lied out of self-preservation then recanted, so no different from Wade then - except that her lie would have vindicated the boys and her truth doesn't whereas his is the opposite. I doubt whether she will retract again now though.

It's funny how the MJ Defenders accept without question that Latoya was coerced into saying those things but not that 2 abuse victims who had been subjected to grooming from a young age would say what they were told to say in order to defend michael

I’ve RTFT and the thing that keeps coming up is the cognitive dissonance when talking about both MJ and Wade. All this rhetoric stating that MJ was ‘childlike’, was abused as a kid, pulled into the limelight at age 5 and so it’s only common sense that he would behave oddly. But at the same time, saying that Wade, who danced on stage with MJ at the Brisbane concert aged 5, was flown to the US aged 7 (even if you don’t believe he was abused, being left for a week with a stranger while your family holidays without you is fucked up), had his family broken up and moved with his mother and sister to the US, leaving his father and brother behind. Father committed suicide, he has to testify for his abuser aged 11 and then again age 21 (pp’s ‘grown man’ is a little disingenuous here, especially when comparing their infantilising language about MJ himself) but he’s acting weirdly so he can’t possibly have been abused. Imagine how fucked up he must be, all that pressure and the guilt!

Very good point SnarkyGorgon.
Some posters: "MJ's abuse made him behave oddly and illogically'. Same posters: 'these people who claim to be abused aren't behaving logically or normally'.

Yes Eden they are both sides of the same coin.
Yes to the cognitive dissonance.
On the other thread vixxxy wrote
They 'they are proven liars' thing is getting to me so much. People are not following that to its logical conclusion. If you say you disbelieve them now as they lied in court..that's admitting that they lied in court when they said he did nothing. Which says he did abuse them. So 'they lied then so are liars now' really is not the gotcha people seem to think.

@earlymodernparent with regard to Gene Simmons though - that was not factually correct
www.huffingtonpost.com/charles-thomson/michael-jackson-its-time_b_482176.html

@areyoubeingserviced Weinstein’s trial is set to start June 3rd, despite his lawyers trying to buy more time. I read the Schleiters' letter btw - it was interesting to me as I live in Germany (the culture here is that it can be weeks, months or even years before you are on per Du - (familiar pronoun) - with people so the friendship is out the norm in that respect(!) but seemed very genuine).

Am appreciating your fact-checking Rage.

I see none of the MJ apologists have even begun to engage with my posts.

Sadly deluded doesn't cover it.

When your musical genius condemns himself with is own words and you still cannot accept the truth you really do have to be determined to remaon blind.

All else, the he said, she said is just distraction. MJs own words prove incontravertibly that he had unhealthy, inappropriate relationships with many young boys over a prolonged period of time

There is sod all else to say about the truth of it!

One thing is for certain, he had an unhealthy sexual attraction to young boys. He enjoyed the company of young boys, and used to have them as part of his entrouge. He had them alone in his Neverland Ranch, and liked to spend time alone with them without their parents present doing 'normal things'. They way he talked about the boys, was flirtatious, it was not in a friendly usual way, but sounded very intimate, when watching interviews with MJ. Jordy Chandler Drew and described the markings on MJ penis exactly the same as police photos. It does therefore not take a rocket scientist to see that his relationship with young boys went beyond the innocent. How many others has he abused I wonder. If he was normal Michael Jones from down the road we would not be making excuses for him.

Have any of the MJ defenders commented on how Jordy was able to describe accurately the markings on MJ's penis while still believing there was nothing inappropriate about their relationship?

I agree Curious all this he's lying, not credible etc is just detracting from the key issue, that MJ is sexually attracted to young boys, POLICE EVIDENCE found many books with naked images of young boys some of them in suggestive poses, and boys faces superimposed onto adult naked bodies. These books were written by Paedophiles and pictures taken by paedophile photographers. POLICE EVIDENCE found that he had visited websites such as varistyteens, and adoptablekids, and planned to bring back children to his home.

It just goes on, and therefore after watching Leaving Neverland, I can well believe that MJ sexually abused those boys.

Aeroflot you can tell us about the books over and over. Yes he had them. That is a fact. However, they were in fact art books. That doesn't mean they cannot be uses by a paedophile but it also does not mean they were all produced by and used by paedophiles and only purchased as such.