Why are people still deluding themselves about Michael Jackson??

[waxahatchee]

If any grown man I know invited children to sleep in his bed with him there would be absolutely no question about what was going on. I am sure that most people would agree, why are so many people still deluding themselves about this?? Makes me so cross, why do they even play his music on the radio??

If he was innocent, why didn’t he stop? He was surrounded by lawyers, agents, publicists. They would have been begging him to stop befriending those boys. They would have warned him how it was going to look to the world, how it could ruin him and land him in prison. If he had genuinely been an innocent, damaged, childlike man who wasn’t able to live in the adult world, and so formed sweet, innocent, childlike friendships where he meant no harm to those children, he would have listened to the people around him and stopped carrying on like that.

The reason that he didn’t was because he couldn’t. Because he was dangerous, obsessive, uncontrolled and uncontrollable. And he didn’t give a fuck about the welfare or happiness of those boys. He just took from them and threw them away when he had finished, like every other abusive man in the world. He wasn’t special, he was a monster hiding in plain sight. Just like Savile.

Micheal was a pretend sweet talking thug. He was a low life thug who can dance and sing.
He was abused by his dad.. he was possibly sexually abused by his dad and certainly beaten by him.
He then spent his youth on tour forced to share bedroom with brothers shagging fans.

They and their families look devastated, they couldent keep i in anymore, they had to do this, to heal and move forward

I've just watched the second part. It is so sad. I believe them.

MJ was a paedophile. A very rich, very famous, untouchable paedophile.

Anyone who says 'why did their parents let them sleep in his bed' it is akin to priests taking boys away on camps etc. The implicit trust some people have of people in a powerful position cannot be underestimated.

And just to add, I absolutely applaud their bravery for making this documentary.

I totally believe those two guys. The second episode of the documentary was very compelling.

Yeah I couldn't believe it when I saw how MJ spent his entire life walking around holding the hand of a boy child. I don't feel that this was previously admitted in previous years. I felt it was particularly poignant when Safechuck described being replaced and then also being completely alone and unable to even talk with anyone about it.

He was always with little kids, I’m a 43 do was a teen at the time they were talking about, I remember MJ always being seen hanging about with kids, or the monkey. I think it was hinted that it was weird but not like it would be now

Wasn’t it one of those things that we all knew? I clearly remember talking about it in the playground in the 80’s.
It was covered up and brushed under the carpet but it was always there,
People chose to ignore it.
Here we are in 2019 when you have to be careful saying he/she, it’s not ok to make any comment that might be construed as being non PC, yet it was ok to the WORLD to watch this sorry, sick man abuse innocent children.
And an alarming number of them are still denying the horror.
Defending him

There's no evidence. I agree that he probably did do it but we don't live in a vigilante justice society, thank god.

Also his music is played on the radio because people like it. I still listen to Gary Glitter sometimes because I like it. It doesn't mean I condone what he did.

There is no evidence???!!

I've watched both episodes and believe them both. I have always found him creepy. I can totally understand Wade's motivation for not wanting to come out as abused when he was seen as this young, cool choreographer etc

What i genuinely can't understand though, is the unfailing devotion so many people have to this man? And how he was seen as child-like when his music and dancing weren't? Ok so his lyrics aren't as raunchy as most of the overly sexualized shite today, but he wasn't singing nursery rhymes and never took his band of his bloody crotch. I remember thinking as a child that his dancing was a bit naughty and something I shouldn't have been looking at. So I never bought the whole child-like bollocks.

FWIW I also wouldn't have dreamed of writing to Jim'll fix it either as he gave me the heebie jeebies.

I wrote to Jim’ll Fix it
My letter was ignored
Thank fuck

I said this on the Telly Addicts thread, and I'll repeat it here: It's really weird the way MJ's defenders see themselves as bold, creative non-conformists standing up against a huge conspiracy, when they are actually just parroting the tired old tropes of rape culture and couldn't be more conformist if they tried.

There's no evidence.
Yes there is. Victim statements are evidence.

Absolutely, Dione.

I’m really going to bed now but this thread has made me so very angry,
Yes he was a clever, manipulative paedophile
But as a mum, really?!
That’s the thing I can’t get my head round
I know it’s been said before but I would fight to the death for my kids
He managed to convince mums! Mums!
Are we all so wrapped up in fame?
Mums
You hold that little wrinkly, pink , bemused thing in your arms and a very strong power comes over you.
If ANYONE asked to share a bed with my child I would at the very least say “I don’t think it’s appropriate “
Yes MJ was a mega perv but the parents/mums allowed it

I have to say that I've not had a proper sleep last night. I was sort of asleep but had this programme on my mind bothering me.

I'm getting really bothered too by people on Facebook I thought were sensible people protesting his innocence. I told one woman that being found "not guilty" is not actually the same as being 100% innocent and she went bat shit crazy at me. These people are deluded.
I work with people who have experienced significant early life trauma, there's no "text book" way of presenting as a person affected by trauma. Some comments I've seen such as " he didn't look to distressed when he was up dancing with Britney ". WTF?????

I thought the part of the documentary where they described the emotions of the aftermath of abuse once they had children themselves really overwhelming.

Anyone who has been through a similar situation will KNOW those men are telling the truth. I listened to their words and it was as if I was saying them myself. There is no doubt. Please stop with all the excuses and smoke and mirrors. It’s a complex issue. Survivors of abuse rarely have feelings that are black and white, everything is distorted. As a child your reactions are guided by the reactions of adults around you. This happens just when it’s a relative who everyone thought was a “good guy.” Imagine when it’s a megastar, adored by millions of hysterical fans - and you are the “chosen one”. Your parents believe him. You know nothing else and it defines your whole life. That’s a reality it would take a lifetime to deconstruct.

I think both men described so well the cognitive dissonance that they had about MJ.

@EmbarrassingStoryteller. Yes, Jordy Chandlers father killed himself, 4 months after Michael died actually. BUT, he also nearly killed his own son when he attacked him. Which, incidently, was when Jordy refused to give evidence against Michael and fled the country

I've often wondered what "evidence" would convince the ardent fans.

The thing is, what the narrative around MJ has done is normalised emotional abuse of these children. Everyone accepts he had these sleepovers and children as his friend, in his bed etc. This is often explained as MJ being childlike etc etc. Except it's not the innocent scenario people like to portray. Whose needs were being met by those boys being in his bedroom, in his bed? MJ's. Whose needs were being met by befriending these boys before moving on to another one? MJ's. All of these scenarios are about fulfilling this mans needs to the detriment of the children and that in this case was child abuse.

I also think people need to stop making assumptions about Macauley Culkin. It is really unfair on Macauley for people to now speculate that he was sexually abuses by Michael and is hiding it. Really bloody unfair. Its also unfair and sensationalist nonsense to decide that his heroin addiction and troubles were due to the sexual abuse people are deciding he must have suffered. How can you say that about him? If you want a fact, he was a child star and we all know that many child stars end up with issues, but in addition to that he was abused by his father and has openly spoke about this. So maybe stop assuming about Macauley and saying things and leave him alone,yeah?

Anyone who believes Michael abused the people who have accused him have the right to believe that (and those who don't also have a right to have their beliefs) but if you want any credibility in your beliefs and not look like sensationalist bumpf stop making so many assumptions about people who have nothing to do with any of it and stop making up 'connections' like a professional photo of two professional musicians ie Michael and his Nephew. That photo (album cover?) does not mean or show anything and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it

Still?

I'll repeat myself. Not vilifying the man just using the words he himself said, and a handy list from another poster (sorry, I copied and ran)

Again, ONLY USING MJs words and science based FACTS:
...we know he has 5 accusers.
We know others allege witnessing the abuse.
We know he had photos of nude young boys.
We know he shared his bed with young boys.
We know that his fingerprints, and those of his accusers, were found in the same pages of his book of images of nude young boys.
We know he gave alcohol to young boys.
We know he entered into multi-million dollar settlements.
We know his bedroom was alarmed

With no other conjecture, vilification etc THAT IS NOT NORMAL IT IS ABUSE.

How much more do those defending him need to know before they will even begin to see through his elaborately constructed persona?

There’s no evidence
Are you kidding? How much evidence do you want?