Why are people still deluding themselves about Michael Jackson??

[waxahatchee]

If any grown man I know invited children to sleep in his bed with him there would be absolutely no question about what was going on. I am sure that most people would agree, why are so many people still deluding themselves about this?? Makes me so cross, why do they even play his music on the radio??

YY Lizzie.

This is why this is so incredibly important.
It's not all a horror story for the youngster's.. they think they love their abuser.

Isn't this the same issues with the Rochdale girls. They thought these men loved them.

Concerts and events where they knew Michael would be at. But yes, it is fucked up she would do that. And she followed and chased him to try and get his interest in Wade. Shit parenting at its finest I agree.

But at the same time, Michael did chase Wade as many seem to think he did with him and others. I can also see why he wanted to take him under his wing, as such! But no, I also don't believe he abused them, I believe he was misguided, stupid and irresponsible but without malicious intent

*DID NOT. not did. Obviously!

Saville allegedly had the backing of the freemasons in high ranking positions ie media etc, which is why it didn't come out. Allegedly... it was all over blind items of gossip for years and years.

I need to correct one of my statements from the last page.

We know he had a large commercial pornography collection, with which he kept pictures of nude children. We know that he looked at some of the commercial pornography with his accusers.

TripTrap I think most of us agree that the parenting was below par and fame chasing. Most parents don’t share beds with boys of 10/11 yet MJ shared his bed, that’s beyond weird and inappropriate. Even if you believe all the men have lied, people need to realise it’s paedophilic to share a bed with someone else’s child.

I didnt watch last night (doing other things). But watching tonight: I 100% believe them both. The cruelty they were exposed to, the picking up and the dumping - and that's leaving aside the sex stuff (as if one could).

Okay, so my curiosity got the better of me after reading this thread and I'm in the middle of watching the first episode.

I used to be a fan of his music and his videos were without a doubt classics. I never really made up my mind about the abuse allegations but after seeing these grown men describe their childhood spent with MJ, you cannot help but have your heart broken by the pain you see in their expressions.

Schuler I don't think anyone can say its normal to share a bed with other peoples children, or even right because it blurs boundaries and can therefore confuse children which does put them at risk. I wholeheartedly agree with that. However, I do not agree that its paedephilic to share a bed. It is only paedephilic if you are attracted to children and doing it for those reasons. But I am aware it appears paedephilic because it's the 'unknown' and weird to most people and we all struggle with unusual concepts.

None of us know, but to vilify a man (a dead one at that) that has not been convicted of these crimes is saddening.
No its not. MJ is dead, neither of these men can hurt him. I'm glad they've spoken out. Every time a victim speaks out, I'm glad, because then their healing can start.

Michael Jackson was a powerful, millionaire paedophile. Now he's dead. There is nothing saddening about that. The only sad thing is that because he was a powerful, millionaire, he was able to buy his way out of justice.

It appears he groomed entire generations and nations. He’s definitely beat Jimmy Saville on that one!

Interesting that Wade didn't begin to accept what happened to him until he had his own child and realised how angry he would be if it happened to them. And how it tore his whole family apart and his wife fell out with his mother over it.

This whole thing has been so eye opening for me. I was not abused as a child but have been within a relationship and I relate to the cognitive dissonance described.

I find it hard to believe that anyone can watch the real, heart rending emotion showed by Wade, Jimmy and their families and STILL defend MJ.
The damage he caused, not only to the kids themselves, but to everyone involved, and for the rest of their lives.
They were disbelieved then and are still being disbelieved now.
Shame on you

It was interesting hearing his mum talk, every word out of her mouth after he told her, was about how it effected her and why didn’t he tell her?
Why were you such a shitty parent, that you let your 7 year old sleep in the same bed as a grown man you don’t know at his request?!
At least the other mother sounds remorseful.

I believe them.

You won't hear me defending MJ ever again.

None of us know, but to vilify a man (a dead one at that) that has not been convicted of these crimes is saddening

And would you say the same about Jimmy Saville?

I believe them. Those poor boys, men now, but still vulnerable boys when recollecting their experiences with MJ.
I hope that this helps other victims to find their voices.

I believe them.

They both look completely traumatised

I have just watched the documentary. These men are taking the truth.

I am currently going through a similar situation in my 40s and so much of what they say resounds and gives clarity to my own feelings. My abuser was not a celebrity, but a family member. I am in my 40s; have never felt any anger towards my abuser; never really thought that what he did to me was wrong. I mean I knee it was wrong in theory, but I couldn’t feel it was wrong. I could only see abuse in terms if other people, not myself. I spoke to my family for the first time two days ago. How it came about was that I’ve been in therapy since last June and it’s emerged from that. When I started therapy, I wasn’t aware that the abuse was significant. It’s hard to explain, but you just don’t feel anything. Having your own children affects you somehow, but you still can’t put it into words. These men are telling the truth, I know they are. You can not make those feelings up.

There is no doubt in my mind after watching both parts of the documentary that they are telling the truth.
The consistency of their stories, tiny recollections and inconsequential details that you wouldn’t include if you were lying, the heart wrenching descriptions of how it made them both feel, the similarities in how MJ seduced not only them but also their parents.
I didn’t believe it but I do now.

I’m inclined to believe them, I think mainly because of the way they haven’t tried to portray him as a monster.
Both men obviously felt like they were in some kind of loving relationship with MJ & although they’ve grown up and realised how awful it was there still seems to be some kind of, Ican’t think of the words, fondness for him? Love for him? The way that their feeling clearly aren’t cut & dried makes it seem more real to me

I haven't RTFT but I've just watched Leaving Neverland and I'm absolutely convinced the two guys are telling the truth.

Back in 2005, when MJ was acquitted of the first allegations of sexual abuse, the media suppressed the fact that Jordy Chandler's family were paid a staggering $23 million in an out of court settlement. If that's not proof of guilt I don't know what is.

Jordy's father went on to commit suicide along with Wade Robson's father a few years later. One of the saddest parts of LN was that Wade said he grieved much more for MJ when he died than his own father when he died, even though he'd been abused by him. The wide ranging repercussions are the saddest part.

After watching both parts, I believe them! The detail, reasons why they said nothing at the time, disconnection of themselves of the abuse, shoving it away. They loved him, and explained quite candidly why they did what they did. It was painful and emotional to watch.

Just watched the 2nd episode and it is so shocking that MJs entourage must have known or at least suspected child abuse. Why would a grown man have a child accompany him everywhere ?