Why are people still deluding themselves about Michael Jackson??

[waxahatchee]

If any grown man I know invited children to sleep in his bed with him there would be absolutely no question about what was going on. I am sure that most people would agree, why are so many people still deluding themselves about this?? Makes me so cross, why do they even play his music on the radio??

Nannybeach it's quite normal that those closest to an abuser are completely unaware either through denial (because who wants to think someone close to them is capable of abuse) or because it is so well hidden.

You hear it after so many murders/abuse/rape cases "oh we had no idea they were capable of that" from their own family.

Abuse is hugely complex thing and victims or abusers rarely fit into stereotypical views of how we expect victims and perpetrators to

For the avoidance of doubt “messing about” between an adult and a child is paedophilia.

Aero the maid alleged she was told that. She also then, after all her claims, stood in court and said she never saw anything she had stated. Whenever anyone asks her why she did this she doesn't say a word! She was also a thief and money grabber, she stole things from Michaels house and sold them

The defenders on here never reply to posts that point out inaccuracies in their claims or facts that counter them. The Jackson estate has paid a lot of people to defend him, I wouldn't be surprised if they were on here on the very night the documentary aired in the UK. Just saying.

Dorothy - I can't decide whether I feel pity for you, or rage.

The idea that you shouldn't judge MJ by 'normal' standards because he wasn't 'normal' - what a stupid concept. Should we have different sets of rules for folk who think sleeping with children is acceptable? don't be obtuse.

Of course none of these allegations can be 'proven' in the way that other types of allegations can be proven. That is the nature of sexual abuse - it is secret and there are no witnesses in the main. What would push it over the evidence threshold for you - CCTV? MJ on camera admitting it? again, don't be obtuse.

The man was fucked up, had a lousy childhood and was bullied by his father. He was almost certainly abused sexually himself and became, IMO a very calculating paedophile. He preyed on young boys and groomed their entire families. And yes, the parents are complicit here.

There is a mound of evidence. It's called witness testimony. If you don't understand what that means it's because you are, for want of a better word, deluded. Witness testimony has just convicted a very high profile catholic Bishop in Australia. It was enough - after all , the Bishop was clever enough to rape his victims behind closed doors. Y'know, in secret? A bit like your beloved MJ. You need to accept that your beloved hero was a rapist . .

I believe them.

Also watched the interview with Mark Lester, who was in MJ inner circle for many years, both were God parents to each others children, and says he nothing to make he suspect any sexual abuse.

And? How do you think sexual abusers actually get away with sexual abuse? Abusers are often family members, but the rest of the family have no clue what is going on. Let alone bloody god parents.

Actually I think Hollywood is probably full of pedophiles. And parents who will literally sell their children.

There was a film called "an open secret" about paedophilia in Hollywood. Adults who were child stars have said the biggest problem Hollywood will always have is paedophilia

It got surprisingly little attention for such a film.

I think the problem is that MJ had an effeminate voice and seemed child like so people make excuses for his actions and choose to see him as a child. Which he wasn't.

Whoever made the point about emotional abuse is also very true. Imagine suddenly being cast aside because you're older now.

And yes, it is notoriously difficult to secure convictions for rape/abuse cases but as another person says being found not guilty doesn't mean you're innocent.

It takes on average 27 years for male victims of child abuse to speak out. For all the 'why didn't they speak up sooner' brigade.

I cannot fathom how anyone can believe MJ's innocence. What grown man, when faced with allegations of serious child abuse, would continue seeking out the 'friendship' of young boys.

He was clearly a monster.

To the people saying that Jackson was found not guilty, therefore that is irrefutable proof that he was not an abuser. If only justice was that straightforward, especially in America, especially when you are rich and famous. Do those of you who are certain of Jackson's innocence because he was found not guilty also believe the same of OJ Simpson for example? Another rich, high profile American who was found not guilty.

Surely someone other than the victims and their immediate families would’ve spoken out by now ?
He’s dead , there’s no estate to protect so why wouldn’t they say
“actually I did see something /find something “ it’s all very odd .
I’m not saying he’s innocent but Surviving R Kelly was much more believable as it want just the victims and their families. It was his staff , his old teachers and even members of HIS own family

*wasnt just

Pk37, his maid did try to speak out years ago, and has done recently.

I believe many others knew but let's be honest, if you came forward saying 'I was an adult and knew MJ was sexually abusing young children' you would likely be vilified.

It is not in the interests of any adult who knew what was going on, to speak out now.

Please also remember that the very rich have a level of legal protection and immunity most of us do not. It is well documented that several people who went to the police with Savile complaints (whilst he was still alive) were threatened with levels of legal prosecution and injunctions that terrified them. Ditto Trump - it is also well documented that even now, his ex wife Ivana is legally bound by many many layers of legal threats which prevent her from saying anything at all about her marriage to the POTUS.

Anyone who thinks that MJ did not enjoy the same level of legal protection and immunity is, frankly, stupid as fuck.

No smoke without fire.

Abusers groom people in the victims circle as well as their own. The people employed by him became complicit because he had control over them and their livelihoods, something that was more precious to them and their families than protecting other innocent children. And like a previous poster said they would be vilified if they started putting their hands up now to having known about it. They will have to live with themselves.

As for the families I would like to believe that they had no clue and were just 'star struck', but in truth, pursuing fame and fortune through their child (see the many programs on TV, dance moms and such like) was more important. They have their notoriety now but for the wrong reasons.

Having been abused as a kid and desperately trying to make the adults around me aware, no one listened until I went to the police years later. I couldn't say outright what was happening because I was too young to verbalise exactly what IT was. I just knew that it felt wrong and I didn't like it.

People believe what they want to believe even when the truth is staring them in the face. I just hope that if it did happen and they now have a voice that they find some peace sharing their experiences and knowing that it wasn't their fault.

I think Mark Lester would be well advised to STFU at this juncture, TBH.

I appreciate he's probably a coattail-rider who will turn up at any studio, any time to pontificate for a few £££s, but his facile insights sound either blinkered or complicit at this point.

It's staggering that so many people think MJ is innocent because he didnt seem the 'type of person' to be a pedophile or because they knew someone who knew him him and he was childlike so couldn't possibly be guilty. That's just crazy.

You can't just tell who is and isn't a pedophile like that.

Its not surprising that victims of child sexual abuse especially male victims. find it so difficult to come forward and report what has happened to them.

im always shocked by the hypocrisy surrounding MJ.
any other "star" and its "we believe you" even if there is doubt, yet with him it all victim blaming. odd.

All I can say is that I believe those men. In the 80s I was ages 4 - 14. I don’t know what it was but both Jimmy Saville and MJ made me feel extremely uncomfortable to the point where I wouldn’t listen to his music, would turn JS off tv. They were creepy as far as I was concerned. Back then there were “adverts” telling children about stranger danger and men trying to lure children into cars etc with the promise of seeing their Puppies. JS and MJ had the same affect on me as those “adverts”. It didn’t surprise me AT ALL when Jimmy Saville was revealed as a paedophile - As I grew into an adult I always thought it was a matter of time!

For the avoidance of doubt “messing about” between an adult and a child is paedophilia.

Usually, though not always. You can have paedophilia and not sexually abuse kids, and you can sexually abuse kids without having peadophilia attraction (much like raping a woman does not necessarily require attraction to her, more getting off on the power).

I lived with a paedophile for 18 years and didn't have a clue. And I was one sibling that wasn't abused, three of my siblings were.
Paedophiles don't abuse every child they meet or have access to because they can't groom every child to the same degree, therefore they can't rely on every child not to 'tell'. Paedophiles are the most cunning criminals on earth.
Don't forget, Sean Lennon saw him being cruel to animals as well, another sign of a criminally disturbed individual. I believe he might have left Sean alone, he maybe saw him more as a trophy to collect. It must have been a power trip in itself to have the son of a Beatle under his control.
For what it's worth, I believe Michael Jackson probably was abused to some extent as a child. He could have sought help for that though, therapy and counselling was available in the 80s, including amongst celebrities. It doesn't excuse inflicting his pain on other people, children and defenceless animals.
I'm glad he's dead as well, I think it's the best thing for everyone, including MJ. Some people should just be humanely 'put down' for the good of society, in my opinion.

The irony of the MJ apologists on here calling Wade a liar, yet saying things like "I'm not a MJ fan", "just playing devils advocate" and "I'm a cop".
FFS.

Michael Jackson was a powerful, intelligent, multimillionaire paedophile. I believe his victims and feel sorry for his children.

question for all the people saying "he's dead so we will never know now" - I don't understand at all what you mean.

Do you think MJ (if alive) would give an honest answer to accusations?

How would MJ being alive make one bit of difference in finding out the truth?

He was repeatedly accused when alive and he paid people off and he lied and lied and lied.
MJ being alive would make not one bit of difference to finding the truth. He was a masterful liar and deceiver as these abusers tend to be.

Yes he was also a musical visionary and a genius artist/writer/performer. This does not mean he wasn't a paedophile.

As with Saville, R Kelly, Bill Cosby, Weinstein, MJ is at the top of his game, rich and powerful and he got what he wanted. His public image was carefully managed. He was an Apex predator hiding in plain sight.

Over the years there have been so many children and their parents in thrall to MJ and groomed by him. But because he is rich and famous, anyone who spoke out was written off as a gold digger and a liar. Can't imagine how difficult it must be to speak out when you will be publicly branded a liar worldwide and hated on my so many MH fans. Just pause for a minute and consider what these men/boys are subjected to - it is any wonder people have been reluctant to speak out?

What would you call ANY OTHER grown man, who sleeps with and is intimately physical with young boys?

Well these boys are now men and are speaking out (Again - let's remember none of this is new) I BELIEVE THEM.

MJ was nearly done for by all this back in the 90's and was pretty skint - but since he died its all been forgotten and he's a musical genius hero again with lots or people and companies making lots and lots of money from him. (Same record company as R Kelly, and Dr Luke - just saying).

SO when you are leaping to defend MJ, if you think he is unjustly accused, take a second to think of other amazing artists, talents, visionaries, wealthy people who AREN'T accused of abusing children or women. There are many of these people who live their kooky crazy lives and aren't accused of being paedophiles or abusers. Why do you think that is?