Why are people still deluding themselves about Michael Jackson??

[waxahatchee]

If any grown man I know invited children to sleep in his bed with him there would be absolutely no question about what was going on. I am sure that most people would agree, why are so many people still deluding themselves about this?? Makes me so cross, why do they even play his music on the radio??

How many times are we going to read that he was 'proven innocent'? There's no such thing. He was found not guilty. In criminal proceedings the prosecution needs to prove guilt 'beyond all reasonable doubt', a very high threshold (particularly in cases without physical evidence). Even then the jury was initially split, and even a juror who voted 'not guilty' said he believed Jackson was guilty, but that the prosecution didn't establish it beyond all reasonable doubt.

Being found not guilty is absolutely not the same as being 'proven innocent'.

I believe MJ did abuse children but he did not believe it was abuse. He saw himself as a god. He was totally delusional and probably believed the children loved him so much and they were enjoying themselves.

In MJ's mind abuse was what his dad did to him. MJ said he'd never hurt a child because abuse was beating a child with the buckle end of a belt. It was not that he was 'sharing' with those children. The awful man thought he was sharing 'love' with them. That's why he would always giggle at the suggestion that he abused children.

If I was interrogating MJ I'd ask him how 'loved' those children.

The parent's should have been charged with something.

The FBI didn't investigate him for 10 years ffs. that's just more lies by the apologists. They ASSISTED in local police force investigations occasionally. From the actual FBI website:

"Dave Hardy, chief of the FBI’s Freedom of Information Program, who says that while FBI didn’t investigate Jackson, the files now available show the FBI working with other agencies."

And here is the link to where it says that.

Judging by most of the responses on this thread, most people think he is a pedophile. I get it, my ranting won’t scratch that surface. But does this mumsnet thread represent society generally?

Because he still seems to be so loved, as others have commented, kids still dress up and dance like him, schools do MJ concerts, every October Thriller is performed at my local town centre with hundreds of people dancing along. He is still just incredibly popular. But why is this, if most people think he is a pedophile?

Of course he knew it was abuse

He made threats that should they tell he would go prison and so would they

He knew exactly what he was doing he was a master manipulator and also in the position where he could surrounded himself with yes people

When he wanted one of the boys to live with him for a year and the mother refused he replied I always get what I want -

He picked his victims and when he was bored of them found others

Judging by most of the responses on this thread, most people think he is a pedophile. I get it, my ranting won’t scratch that surface. But does this mumsnet thread represent society generally?

Because he still seems to be so loved, as others have commented, kids still dress up and dance like him, schools do MJ concerts, every October Thriller is performed at my local town centre with hundreds of people dancing along. He is still just incredibly popular. But why is this, if most people think he is a pedophile?

To be blunt, I think the divide is largely explained by differing levels of intelligence. As with so much else.

In US polling, 41% think guilty and 19% innocent.

1 in 3 at least somewhat like him, although that is a drop in recent years.

today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/03/01/michael-jackson-leaving-neverland-survey

From before the recent doc though.

I watched LN lastnight and was horrified. I believe those poor men.

Wade even got a bloody book deal due to it! And let's not forget his 'fame'..because he was never as noticed as he wanted to be until now!

Because every man wants to be famous for being raped as a child

I think the documentary is very, very compelling. I'm guessing many fervent supports haven't even watched it. I saw a previous documentary on him years ago that made my skin crawl. IMO he groomed those boys and their parents, behaved like a disturbed freak show and got away with it because he was rich/famous.

Our celebrity culture is a disease.

I watched the documentary last night and was gobsmacked.
I really hadn’t believed he was a paedophile - I thought there may have been some messing around (not excusing it) rather like kids exploring together but I’m convinced now that it was way more serious than that.

Their stories have the ring of truth so I have completely changed my view.

Shouldn’t evidence (or lack there of in this case) be more compelling than good story telling? Is having “a ring of truth” really more important?

I’m purely playing devils advocate! I find it very interesting that this completely one sided documentary has completely swayed people.

I totally agree that the documentary was very compelling by the way. It was very well made. I do not believe them though.

Why not though? If they are lying they deserve Oscars for their performances.

What "evidence" would be good enough for you? And what are they supposed to have besides their own testimony? If multiple accusers and Jackson's own behaviour, which is pretty much text book paedophile btw, isn't enough, then I don't know what would be.

And I mean, honestly, how can you watch James Safechuck in particular and not believe him? Its clear that he is suffering greatly. You can't fake that, sorry

I would like not to believe it as grew up with his music etc....but it’s in plain sight! He always hung around with young boys how many men in the 40s want to hang around or sleep in bed with kids? That alone would send warning signals!

You'd describe MJ as normal and ordinary would you
Yes I would actually. We're all the fucking same, we all breathe oxygen, eat and shit in the same ways, just because Michael Jackson was a pop singer doesn't alter that or make him 'speshul' in any way. It's just a job at the end of the day. Nobody was more famous than Princess Diana but she managed to get through her life without having 'sleepovers' with little kids. Michael Jackson bought most of the press attention onto himself by acting in an eccentric manner, many equally succesful celebrities manage to get around their daily lives in a private normal manner because they don't act like entitled dickheads.

The same debate about credibility rumbles on. I honestly believe that if this was another man on LN and not Wade the outcome and opinion might be different. It just gives too many flies in the MJ ointment for it to ever be taken seriously by many

Has anyone ever listened to the podcast Evil Or Genius? It’s a comedy podcast but it’s pretty much this premise re dead famous people who had dark sides/commuted crimes. At what point does their wrong doings overshadow and take away from their talent and influence? Someone can be talented and influential but also be a bad person. We just don’t seem to be able to make this work as humans. No one would go around saying Adolf Hitler was ‘great leader’ but he was immensely successful in his political career. But as he was (proven) to be an evil evil bastard, he no longer has any credible good points.

MJ will still be one of the biggest musical influences of our generation. He will still have sold all those records and inspired millions. He also had another side to him that abused small boys.

No one listens to Gary Glitter or watches Jimmy Saville as they were never very talented or loved anyway. But we can accept that MJ was a deeply flawed person who had a very long serious addiction to drugs (- he met James on the Pepsi set where he obtained his awful injury that set off his drug addiction.). You won’t get the evidence you want to see. He is now dead. No one is going to be able to produce evidence when we lived in a time where technology was far less superior and MJ had the money and people to make things go away

True look at every former child star. They had their childhood taken from them. Lindsay Logan's parents were awful, of course she's had problems and is/has been very vulnerable, but has never made an accusation about her. Ditto drew Barrymore, Macaulay caulkin, Britney spears (and all those Disney kids), Elijah wood, wil Wheaton etc etc endlessly.

Brian Wilson's father beat him, didn't let him do anything but practice, perform and write music. None of the beach boys had a childhood. Despite all their documented drug abuse and Brian's mental health problems, no one ever accused them. They had plenty of money too.

As a pp said the simplist explanation is often the truest.

*Lindsay Lohan

I often think these people have watched to much law and order etc. Where there is always a smoking gun, an independent witness or the defendant just gives up and confesses. That's not how it works in real life.

I’m purely playing devils advocate!

No you're not @DorothyZbornack - in your very next post you say you don't believe them.

No evidence????? Him inviting children over to sleep in his bed is evidence enough!!!! What is wrong with people???? It’s sick! It’s not normal!

I watched part 2 (it was aired at the weekend is the US); the parents' culpability is never really addressed satisfactorily. They admit they fucked up but can't explain their actions. MJ was like a family member to these people. I absolutely believe those men and also think Culkin and the others will admit to it one day too.

They’re talking about this all on BBC5Live now funnily enough. Sorry cole, my bad!