To seethe at articles like this - 'I didn't know who my friends were until I was a mother'

[Likethewind321]

This one specifically:

www.mother.ly/love/motherhood-helped-me-understand-what-real-friendship-is?fbclid=IwAR1DgYhJay05k6JEZ7s4i6blGZ3wwycCsbJhZFWB8rMf3KSq8aXR_ROXSYI

I wonder what happens to all those 'silly frivolous friends who only cared about going out and having fun' Those friends who were shallow, who never really 'got it' ?

I'll tell you! One of two things. 95% of them will all have kids too, just maybe a few months or years later. And when they do, they will then also transform into wonderful human beings who 'get it'. They may not hang out with their old friends but they will become the newfound besties of whichever mums they meet in clinic or playgroup.

And the other 5%? They won't have children, and will silently watch as their friends all turn away and step into the social world of toddler groups, playdates, birthday parties, mummy chat groups, mummy coffee dates and mummy nights out. Watch as they make new friends, friends who 'get it'. This 5% will be dismissed as having never been a 'real friend' in the first place.

And can they complain about it? No. Because if they do they will be thought of as bitter or envious. A bit lonely and sad. They will probably be pitied.

Well guess what. I think it's being childless in a world where motherhood is worshiped, to find out who your friends REALLY are.

It is normal to think about it, but using annual leave during the holidays is a normal way to accommodate it surely? Baring in mind AL won't cover even half the school holidays, so there's still the other 7 or so weeks to manage.

It's not relevant in mine either, I work in a sector that is closed over Christmas and has absolutely no requirement to be open and so it likely will never apply to me. But I can still understand that if I were to work in a sector that did require holiday cover, I would have to take that into account when it came to childcare and Christmas etc... That's no one else's responsibility but mine.

*bearing in mind

Maybe some time off at Christmas for parents is a little trade off?

What exactly is the trade-off? Don’t parents get exactly what they want both times in that “deal”?

How is this for celebration of motherhood and the consideration of 'leave' for mother's ..

There's another thread running, where a mum had to use annual leave when her child was taken to hospital. Multiple stories on this thread...one where a mum was given compassionate leave whilst her seriously ill child was in hospital. But told, she wouldn't be able to get a 2nd lot of compassionate leave if the child died. Another mum who WASNT given compassionate leave whilst her child WAS dying, as it 'had to be agreed in advance' and the boss demanded she go in for OH assessment the day after her child had died

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3517634-To-think-a-baby-in-hospital-is-an-exception-to-the-rules?pg=2

But you choose to have children... Something which most people (obviously not all) would plan first and take things like that into account before doing so. Why should there be a 'trade off' because of a choice you made?

Also, personally neither scenario really applies to me as I have step children and so have to take time in the holidays to go away with them.

@PurpleDaisies well I just mean that they're probably paying double for their holidays outside of term time which isn't ideal. Of course that's the companies hiking up the prices. I've always been very glad up til now to not have to be part of the scrum trying to get a week's holiday during the summer for a family holiday and then getting a nice cheap holiday abroad!

There's another thread running, where a mum had to use annual leave when her child was taken to hospital. Multiple stories on this thread...one where a mum was given compassionate leave whilst her seriously ill child was in hospital. But told, she wouldn't be able to get a 2nd lot of compassionate leave if the child died. Another mum who WASNT given compassionate leave whilst her child WAS dying, as it 'had to be agreed in advance' and the boss demanded she go in for OH assessment the day after her child had died

That is awful. Of course I'm not in agreement with any of that at all.

And everyone has agreed how wrong that was candy.

@CandyPuff that's disgusting especially because I think at a lot of places compassionate leave is discretionary.

Me and one of my friends had our first child within months of each other. When she told me she was going to stop being friends with her former best friend, who had stood by her through really tough times, because BF didn't engage enough with her child, I decided to cool our friendship and gradually withdraw from her. I thought that was a despicable way to treat a good friend.

Massive advantage for them there that they can get cheaper holidays abroad

Assuming you want to go abroad. If you holiday in the UK as I do, there's not much point in going out of season because you're unlikely to get decent weather.

This reminds me of a meme/poster thing I've seen doing the rounds, something like:

"Mums are expected to have children as if they don't work, and work as if they don't have children."

It's generally a good thing for society overall that people have children. They are hard work and make things logistically difficult until they are of an age they can look after themselves. Do people honestly grudge a bit of priority when annual leave is needed for childcare?

Again, it reminds me of all the P+C parking threads - it's my choice to have kids so how dare I get a tiny bit of extra help to make my day the slightest bit easier when a fully grown able bodied adult could use the space to save themselves walking an extra 50 meters?

Holly, you having use of p and c spaces has no affect on me whatsoever. Being expected to give up Christmas with my family because I'm childless does.

I was refused compassionate leave for the funeral when my cousin was murdered as it was for close family only. Lots of companies outside some multinationals and public sector only give paid leave in exceptional circumstances. It is shit, but it is not a conspiracy against mothers.
And plenty of people without kids go away on holiday with extended family during school holidays, or friends with kids. I do think some people with kids think those without kids are still living their lives as if they were in their twenties, when they are 40. Very few people do.

Oh I agree with you about Christmas Day - I think it's fair to take turns if you are in a job that requires Christmas workers, regardless of children.

Holly IME it is always the mothers taking leave during school holidays to look after their kids. If you ask, few of their male partners do the same.

Indeed childless or childfree women can't live as they do in their 20s in their 40s because they no longer have the same kind of friendships because they become pushed out and less than.

If you holiday in the UK as I do, there's not much point in going out of season because you're unlikely to get decent weather.

I’m not sure I agree with that. The best UK weather can often be June/early September.

And there are never guarantees. Not UK but we holidayed in Ireland one year in July and it rained solidly for 2 weeks.

@clairemcnam

All the couple's I know who don't have or can't afford help over the holidays, both parents have to do it. School holidays are 13 weeks, AL usually 5. Even with both parents taking all AL in the school holidays, there's still a short fall.

Despite this conversation, I have never in real life seen a mother's holiday requests prioritised over childless people. I've worked in maybe 30 hospital/healthcare facilities where there has been a shift pattern and/or night/weekend/bank holiday rotas. I have never myself or seen anyone else design it round any individuals personal circumstances or requests. It would be a nightmare to actually do that
I'm not sure I believe that happens? I've only ever seen rotas written to the normal pattern and then individuals swap shifts to suit themselves.

Or are you talking about where mother's have requested a flexible working pattern/set hours?

That escalated quickly! Children love this and some adults love Christmas too. I know people that always or don't work it. It's no big deal. Hours spent at work on christmas are all the same. Maybe it's different as I have a partner and we can alternate shifts so someones at home or perhaps it's a bit of I don't actually like christmas and don't care but some women do it alone and have no option but to be santa etc and theres been a few low blows on this thread... I think threads like this are provoking and can stir emotions up or bring up subjects that are uncomfortable but you can give an opinion without having to purposely offend someone in the process.

Despite this conversation, I have never in real life seen a mother's holiday requests prioritised over childless people.
You’ve obviously never seen any of the threads that pop up in the run up to Christmas. It’s more common for people (almost exclusively women) to guilt trip you into swapping working Christmas. The lazy assumption is that if you don’t have kids, you’d rather be out getting hammered on New Year’s Eve instead.

So many things to loathe about that article.

I loathe the sentence "Early on in motherhood, my time and energy were primarily spent raising a tiny human."

Well, give yourself a bloody medal!

She sounds so self absorbed and whining - don't blame her mates for dumping her.

Op I do relate to that article. I think you have completely misunderstood it.

Once I had children so many of my friends dropped me. They weren't interested. Motherhood can be really lonely. I would have liked to have stayed friends with my childless friends (I had children early, so all of my friends were childless) but they had other ideas. I also found it difficult to form new 'mum' friendships.

The article was not a jab at those who are childless, but rather talking about how having a baby alters ones social circle.