To seethe at articles like this - 'I didn't know who my friends were until I was a mother'

[Likethewind321]

This one specifically:

www.mother.ly/love/motherhood-helped-me-understand-what-real-friendship-is?fbclid=IwAR1DgYhJay05k6JEZ7s4i6blGZ3wwycCsbJhZFWB8rMf3KSq8aXR_ROXSYI

I wonder what happens to all those 'silly frivolous friends who only cared about going out and having fun' Those friends who were shallow, who never really 'got it' ?

I'll tell you! One of two things. 95% of them will all have kids too, just maybe a few months or years later. And when they do, they will then also transform into wonderful human beings who 'get it'. They may not hang out with their old friends but they will become the newfound besties of whichever mums they meet in clinic or playgroup.

And the other 5%? They won't have children, and will silently watch as their friends all turn away and step into the social world of toddler groups, playdates, birthday parties, mummy chat groups, mummy coffee dates and mummy nights out. Watch as they make new friends, friends who 'get it'. This 5% will be dismissed as having never been a 'real friend' in the first place.

And can they complain about it? No. Because if they do they will be thought of as bitter or envious. A bit lonely and sad. They will probably be pitied.

Well guess what. I think it's being childless in a world where motherhood is worshiped, to find out who your friends REALLY are.

This is a bit controversial but I'll go there anyway. There's a lot of people saying "well ou had children, that was our choice so you should live with the consequences". I would say yes and no. There is a strong biological urge to have children that in many ways makes you totally overlook the practical difficulties you'll face raising children! I guess it's evolutionary but motherhood is in equal parts harder and more wonderful than you expect or imagine. Realistically a lot of women don't make a measured calculated decision to have children, it's more of a sudden desperate need to have a baby.

you definitely feel like the outsider looking in when you're in the 5%
Isn’t that true of any group of people who share a particular interest that you don’t?

The vast majority of my friends are well into fashion. I’m not. There are many conversations I am on the outside of.

Isn’t that true of any group of people who share a particular interest that you don’t?

Not having children is not exactly the same as not liking the same hobby.

No it is not. But it is true perhaps of those who are carers or have a disability. I know from being a young adult there are social things I simply can not do because of my disability, and others I will not go to as it is just too difficult.

BabyDarling I never felt that strong biological urge and I know plenty of mothers who did not. I know some experience it, but some do make a calculated decision to have kids.

Yes some do some don't. For me personally it was like a switch had flipped in my brain and I needed a baby like now come hell or high water!

I think it is normal for friendships to change when people have major life events.

Some friends are friends 'do' things with be it a sport, drinking, eating or going to the theater or whatever.

If 'popping round for a chat' isn't already in our friendship menu, it isn't likely to be after you have a baby. For sure, I will turn up once with a card and a gift to meet the baby. But realistically on an ongoing basis I don't want to do all the running traveling to your house if we aren't doing the fun activity we usually do, and nor are we seeing the 'activity group'.

Friends that have had babies and are still friends are those where we have been deeper friends to start with, or we live nearby so its easy to pop in, or they have made a bloody good effort to share the meet ups.

motherhood is in equal parts harder and more wonderful than you expect or imagine

This is a bug bear of mine.

"OMG this is so much harder than I expected" says EVERY NEW MOTHER EVER

If you honestly don't appreciate just how bloody hard it is before you have a child, you obviously didn't do enough research or thought. Or you're supremely arrogant to think that your baby would be better than everyone elses.

You sound a hit silly there to be honest. Yes, all new mothers say it. This would imply that someone simply explaining to you that it's hard is insufficient to convey the myriad challenges of new motherhood. I also think there's a biological evolutionary element which kind of blinds you to how hard it will be so that you reproduce.

I have known mothers who say it was easier than they expected as they had read and heard so much about how hard it was.

If you honestly don't appreciate just how bloody hard it is before you have a child, you obviously didn't do enough research or thought. Or you're supremely arrogant to think that your baby would be better than everyone elses

Yes you know theoretically, but that’s not the same as experiencing the reality.

It’s not arrogance, stupidity or lack of thought. It’s just the difference between theory and lived experience.

"If you honestly don't appreciate just how bloody hard it is before you have a child, you obviously didn't do enough research or thought. Or you're supremely arrogant to think that your baby would be better than everyone elses."

Or perhaps you just hadn't thought about it, maybeyoung without friends who were mothers of a similar age, with an unplanned pregnancy not already on Mumsnet or following "Mommy loves her babies" on Facebook, with only a mother who was decades later with the rose coloured glasses firmly on. No babies or children already in the family. Or perhaps PND hit like a ton of bricks. I had absolutely NO idea what I was in for, it was before the days of "scummy mummies" I would describe the process of becoming a mother as truly traumatic for myself, to the point I am going to counselling 9 years later. And don't think I wasn't prepared, I researched every pram, BF tip, weaning info I could when pregnant, I was practically very well informed, I am one of life's natural planners, which is probably why the whole thing was AWFUL for me!!

@clairemcnam God I'm glad I don't know any of those mothers!!! "Oh, isn't it easy!" would not go down well with me or the other new mums I know 😂

It wasn't me! But for example I knew one woman who when she had her baby used to phone me at work bored because she had nothing to do as the baby was sleeping again, and who said it was much easier than she thought it would be.

Ah she had one of the mythical sleeping babies. I have heard of these in legend!!

Yep. She was used to being busy and just kept complaining all the time about being bored. She also wanted to know what time she should wake her baby in the morning.
You would have hated her.

Good situation: friends who make an effort to remain friends and support each other during changing life circumstances, and take a genuine interest in each other's lives.

Bad situation: a friend who has a child and drops you like a stone - doesn't ever bother calling you, only talks about kids' stuff when you contact her, expects everything to revolve around her lifestyle (even though yours is also incredibly hectic), and then three years down the line calls you up because she wants to use you to go a night out without her kid.

Is it any wonder that the latter discovers her friend is gone?

OP I totally agree with your last paragraph. I am a mum myself,Dd is now an adult with a Dd of her own. I was the first one in my peer group to have a baby (aged 19) but I NEVER turned my back on my child free friends. Indeed,my best friend from the age of 5 has never had children,but we are still best friends,50 years on. And I agree that there seems to be some sort of thing going on whereby motherhood is worshipped,and if you are child free,you are pitied. I hate this attitude.

@daftgeranium there is a second bad scenario: you have a baby. Your friends continue planning boozy nights out, weekends away and expensive evening restaurant meals. Your invitations to make it a pub lunch instead or an afternoon tea somewhere baby friendly are not accepted. People do not want to visit you at home or host you at theirs. You are forced to decline these invitations and gradually they tail off. Your friends are no longer your friends.

I think this is closer to what the writer of the article is trying to describe. I can happen both ways but in an ideal scenario both parties need to compromise for the friendship to work.

What is wrong when mothers say that women without kids don't know what real love is, don't understand real responsibility, or any number of things that some mothers do say.

This

I'm pleased when women love motherhood. I'm sure I would have. But my life and I am not less because I have no children. I have plenty of love and responsibilities thank you.

babychildren Honestly though that sounds like friends you do things with. I have been part of friendship groups like that in the past but have only considered myself as actual friends with 1 or 2 women in the group.
These women I saw outside the friendship group as well. So no, I would not expect this group to alter plans.
I play sports and we all go out to the pub afterwards. It is like me expecting this group of friends to change their plans and meet me for coffee during the day if I can no longer play sport. It just wouldn't happen, as none of them are true friends that go beyond friends who do things together and have fun.
The OP just does not understand different kinds of friendships. And I suspect most of her mum friends will also drop away when they are back at work and can no longer meet for coffee during the day.

. For me personally it was like a switch had flipped in my brain and I needed a baby like now come hell or high water

Now imagine having that feeling and not getting the baby ever. Of going through multiple rounds of IVF all of which fail.

Then finding a way of coping with the grief and finally accepting your life for what it is instead of what it was supposed to be, but never can be.

And then some arsehole tells you that the life you have carefully built has no meaning.

f you honestly don't appreciate just how bloody hard it is before you have a child, you obviously didn't do enough research or thought. Or you're supremely arrogant to think that your baby would be better than everyone elses

This is bollocks by the way.

Women on both sides of this can be let down immensely. I have a friend that I have known since I was in preschool. Her partner became one of DHs best mates. The four of us used to hang out a lot.
Then I had a baby. My friend has been awesome - she made the effort to come and see me in the day for a while as she knew I would be asleep from about 8pm! She always asks about DS and has been there every step of the way. I go and see her every week now.
Conversely, her partner ‘dropped’ DH like a hot potato and he has barely seen him since! It’s like he expected DH would have a personality transplant so just doesn’t bother with him anymore. Strange.

I never made good friends with moms from the groups. I wasn’t interested in children before I had my baby and I’m not interested in them now - only my own!

@Leighhalfpennysthigh that would be awful. At no point have I condoned anyone telling anyone else their lives lack meaning though.