SN Son shouted at by woman in cafe

[missmama12]

My family and I recently went out for a meal and my youngest DC has autism which causes him to be very hyperactive and agitated in public spaces and as a result of this, the woman on the table beside ours leaned over and shouted at my son due to him being too loud! I am at a loss what to do because I don't want my DS to miss out on days out with the family due to his disability. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thank you!

I used to volunteer with a teenager with autism who could not bear loud noise and would frequently tell people to be quiet.

This is also true my son has autism and sometimes he just can’t cope with noise around him.

As an aside, where I work we have children diagnosed as young as 2 and it it is not because they are all so bad or obvious. It is usually because we have health visitors who do a thorough 2 year check and refer in for services. SALT waiting list is about 6 months.

In the next LA along health visitors sometimes do a tick box 2 year check, sometimes with the parents answering questions, and frequently tell concerned parents to wait and see what the next 6 months brings. This inevitably delays any assessment.

The LA on our other side believes that we are too quick to asses and diagnose. As with other NHS services I think it often has more to do with the geographical area where you live than how obvious your child’s symptoms are.

Sorry haven’t read the whole thread. It’s a tough one, both my dc have ASD, both behave amazingly when we eat out, I know that’s not the case for everyone but if mine were ever noisy then we would take them out of the restaurant/cafe and calm them down, my youngest was non verbal at 3 so would only make the occasional noise unless she was in meltdown (full blown crying) then we would leave. I think it’s unfair to expect everyone to put up with noise just because your child has ASD, obviously most children make some noise and people usually tolerate it but if my child was being too noisy I wouldn’t expect others to tolerate it, they are out paying for a meal too.

Don’t stop taking your DS out to eat but do have respect for other people and teach your son respect too, he may take longer to learn but he will get there, if he’s being too noisy then take him outside for a bit until he calms down. Having autism isn’t an excuse for being noisy or naughty, I never use autism as an excuse if my child’s being noisy or naughty, if they are having a meltdown because they can’t cope with a situation then I may explain to people that she is autistic (whilst removing the child from the restaurant). All kids need to learn how to eat out and at the age of 3 most children are still learning to sit nicely and to keep the noise down.

@anniehm

For someone with an autistic child your attitude is disgustingly smug. You are obviously one of the lucky ones who’s child isn’t severe.

Also I would recomend eating early whilst it’s a bit quieter, we usually get to a pub for 12 before it gets noisy and busy, we find a place out of the way to sit and usually food comes out reasonably fast as we are first to order. For us places like Pizza Hut and F&B are a no go unless it’s not busy, it’s too noisy and dd2 can’t cope with noise and people waking around.

Could be worse, my autistic 5 year calls everyone he meets at the moment 'Poo Pants', babies are called 'Poopy nappy pants' . Tried to stop him everytime but its an automatic reaction from him now. I give him a tablet or my phone when he needs distracting when we are out but that still results in people looking at him as he stims rather loudly to it, which is a shame as it's his happy noise.

My mum has Alzheimer's and we used to have merry hell taking her out in the year before she became so ill she had to go into a care home. She'd attempt to do exactly what that woman did OP. Because she simply can't stand piercing noises. She could cope with the low rumble adults make but young children would just 'go through her' - it's the pitch. So we'd try to find more 'adult' pub type places and, of course, we'd have a family near us with young kids (she was like a blooming magnet). It's not always that easy to move especially if it's an occasion like Mother's Day etc.,

But, I said she'd 'attempt' to behave like that woman. We'd know what our mum was about to do. We'd see the agitation start and we'd hear the 'oh for pity's sake shut that kid up' mumble. That would be our cue to go into distraction mode. Visit to the loo, little walk outside if it was a nice night. Flip out the phone and show her the latest Facebook messages from family. Agree to skip dessert and get something from the supermarket on the way home and get the bill pronto! And she'd always be told that we were exactly the same at that age so calm down. It didn't always work but we'd try. And this was a woman who adored kids, worked as a school crossing patrol person for 30 years and would have kids rush up to her for a hug when they went to cross the road with their parents - she just changed...

It's a shame you had to have this OP but I'd say a couple of things.

1. People aren't necessarily picking on an autistic child. Sometimes they have hidden issues themselves which means two worlds have just collided. Don't take it to heart.

2. Don't be put off taking your child out. We weren't put off taking mum out and it gave us great memories of her final 'out in the world' year before we had to find a safer place for her. Yes we sometimes had to quickly deal with a situation - she once had a poo accident in the middle of a cafe (that was fun...) but you learn. The only way your DS will learn what to do and you'll learn how to handle things, is for you to put yourself in those positions.

My friend, whose son is autistic, reckons McDs and places like Beefeaters or Brewers Fayres are her friend. McDs for a quick bite and to practice going out. The service is fast. Yes it may not be the best food (personally I love a McDs but that's another story) but because it's fast you can sit, eat and go. You can test the time limits as your DS grows. Brewers Fayres etc are great if they have a kids 'pit' that you can take DS into. Ask for a seat close to it so you can watch him as he gets older without having to constantly be by his side (unless he needs that support of course).

My DS loved Brewer's Fayre when he was younger - he could let off steam, shout, run about and his food would then miraculously appear. I think we knew the menu off by heart! And he's not autistic. We didn't eat out at posh places with him because boredom would set in. If it didn't have a kids menu and something for a kid to do we didn't open the door when he was under 5!

My friend used story boards to prepare her son when he was younger. They practised at home, sitting at the table quietly and pretending to order food just to prepare him for what to expect. That worked for him but every child, autistic or not, is different. It's only practice that will help you figure out what works. All I will say is that my friend's DS now as he enters his teens, with a plan in place each time, is a joy to take out. Loud, excitable, but a total joy and controllable but that's his level - everyone is different with different triggers, autistic or not.

I hope you have a happier time next time. I'm surprised the people the woman was with didn't say something to her (assuming someone was with her) because we'd have said something gently to her if it were our mum. Even though she couldn't help it any more than your DS could.

I'd have shouted back at the nasty cow tbh, and ask staff to move them as she was being rude.
Really? So everyone is supposed to accept OP's child being louder even though they don't know he's autistic and yet you think it's okay to shout at someone without knowing anything about them? That's called double standards.
Given the number of loud and disruptive children out in public who have zero reason for their behaviour other than shit parenting it's not surprising that people are sometimes going to complain about the behaviour of someone who can't actually help it. Perhaps if everyone who could behave did behave then it would become the norm again to assume that someone who was behaving outside socially-acceptable norms actually had a good reason for it and people would try to be accommodating and supportive instead. As it is it's the minority (like OP and her DS) who suffer because of the selfish attitudes of the tossers who let their offspring run riot, and cause everyone to assume that OP is yet another shit parent.

I really don't know why people are giving fabaunt a hard time. Am I expected to just tolerate someone lashing out at me or my family with no acknowledgement or apology?

Her son didn't lash out. Completely making up a narrative to have a dig at people with ASD? Nice.

Fabaunts post was not about the OPs child. It was about an elderly woman being smacked by an adult and leaving in tears. Her point (made explicitly in the post) was that context is everything and it was unclear from the OP alone whether the woman was actually being unreasonable.

Now I think the OP reads like the woman was just a twit (and I'm not sure it's helpful to debate the limits of disability accomodation in public spaces on this thread) but neither fabaunt or the other people who have made the point are having a dig at ASD.

Op it is not worth discussing this sort of thing here. you are looking for advice and what you'll get - other than from those who are living it - is a sanctimonious lecture.

Here is we do with my son:

Only go to places he knows, who serve food quickly, who cater the type of food he likes to eat. We don't have starters or puddings, we don't try to extend it into another activity. We come, we eat, we go home happy. And we allow iPad with no volume all through the meal for him.

Ds is 9 now and I have made every mistake in the book outing wise. Now we know exactly what he can and can't cope with and never, under any circumstances, deviate from the programme!

That woman who told your son to be quiet was rude and presumably doesn't have nearly enough to worry about in her own life.

OP, were you actively telling your DS to be quieter? My DS has SN and we go eat out but every single time he speaks too loud I tell him, it sometimes feels like I am on a loop. The point is to teach him what is expected in this setting, but also to show other customers we are trying to respect them.
If you weren’t saying anything then the wolan wasn’t BU even though she should have said it politely.

My suggestion is to expose your child to as many experiences where he may become upset as you can, but in a planned, careful way. For example, go to a small cafe when it's quiet, not at the lunchtime rush, and make sure he has eaten first! Take his favourite toys to occupy him. You need to use social stories to explain the world to him.
'This is a cafe and we can get ice cream. We need to be quiet. If we are too noisy we will leave.' Repeat again and again. Make sure you pay for your food as soon as you order, and explain to staff you may need to leave in a hurry as your child has SN. Don't be embarrassed, don't get flustered. Go back to the same place (if it proves to be SN friendly) to build up familiarity.
Do the same with play areas, cinemas, swimming pool,s etc.
The woman who shouted at him was unkind, but it's also a good learning experience for him. 'The lady told you to be quiet because you were hurting her ears'.
In reality, your child will probably do much worse things in public as they get older!
I've had 'why's that lady sooooo fat? She should stop eating.'
'My dad says you're just mean' to the next door neighbour. Etc 😂🤣

Odd question to ask possibly, but was he quiet after?

That is a brilliant post from@LondonJax

She right about worlds colliding and the advice to still keep taking your son out.

It has been trial and (lots of) error for us but we've got it pretty good now.

That’s such good advice, @LondonJax ❤️ It’s about finding the most appropriate restaurant/café for your needs, if that’s possible. With pain and anxiety induced sensory overload I would never go to a Brewers Fayre/Hungry Horse or similar because they’re so noisy and targeted to children - which is great! It’s unreasonable to be somewhere like that if you can’t cope with noise.

By the same token, if you go into a quiet restaurant, aimed at adults, with a peaceful ambiance, it’s reasonable to think you’ll be able to enjoy your meal in a relatively calm environment. I still wouldn’t snap or shout at a child but I would ask to move if necessary.

Go back to the same place (if it proves to be SN friendly)

Yes to this! If somewhere proves itself to be SN friendly then it gets our business forevermore, if it proves itself to be lacking then we never go again.

Agreed @IHateUncleJamie - it is all about appropriateness.

And, what you've also got to take on board OP is that, if that woman had been half an hour later eating or gone on a different day, you'd probably be saying what a great day you'd had. She won't be there every time you eat out so don't give up.

I have chronic fatigue. When I am in periods of relative wellness I can get out and about, go out for food. To do this I am permanently using all of my resources. This differs from how people with normal levels of energy, who do not. Noise in general is very draining, so loud music, talking, tv etc. High pitch voices especially so. If a child screams or shouts near me that can send me into overload and crash my system. I have to lie down as I become unable to move or even talk for at least 10 mins - being able to sit up and stand is often much longer.

I am disabled. I just have a different disability from your ds. not saying it was the case for this woman. Just there are plenty of explanations for an intolerance to noise.

Familiar settings will work well with your ds I imagine. McDonald’s also gives continuity of meals in different outlets.

You need this autism awareness notice for your table. See pic.
My 9-year old son has autism. He also find restaurants, cafes, coffee shops, etc, difficult. We don’t go very often now because he struggles.
But when we do go we put this notice in the middle of the table to ward off any people who think it is acceptable to stare at or shout at my son for behaviour he cannot help due to his invisible disability.
You can buy it from ASD Bright Ideas online or make your own.
I also make sure I have his phone and headphones with us as they help calm him.

I have a son with severe autism, who would also sit in his seat but occasionally make loud noises.

Honestly if someone done that to my son I’d tell them to fuck off and not to speak to my son again.

Becoming a regular somewhere does help. we go to the same place and the staff (and s lot of regular customers) now know ds and his needs so are very understanding. They would also be very defensive of him if anyone did say something!

Last time we were in his iPad battery died (parenting fail on my behalf) so the manager came over with her phone charger and plugged it in for him!

Think it’s very hard for you but you need to think carefully about where you take him and what your coping strategies are for if he becomes agitated.

He’s only 3. Maybe leave meals out for a bit.

It’s not fair to ruin someone else’s meal out and you don’t know what issues this woman may have. Most people would quietly ask to be moved away, but it doesn’t always work out like this.

I'd have gone mad. My boy is the same age and is being assessed for ADHD. I tell him to use his indoor voice and to be gentle but he shouldn't miss out on things.

Becoming a regular somewhere does help. we go to the same place and the staff (and s lot of regular customers) now know ds and his needs so are very understanding.

This is also true. We go to a family pub where they all know DS1 and the staff make an effort to talk to him, and if he starts getting a bit silly they'll do things like grab a pack of balloons out from the back and stuff. It's great. But the manager has a child with SN too so she's really understanding.

To be realistic, very few NT 3 year olds are able to behave impeccably in this situation OP, so please be kind to yourself. Sometimes three year olds will just be three year olds - if a childless, semi-hermetic grumpy old git like me can understand that, I think anyone can.

Some of the suggestions here are brilliant, especially the cards. I hope you find a way that works for you and your family.