Transgender athletes in sport

[sweetheart]

My dd plays ladies football. Recently she played against a team with a player who looked and sounded very masculine. It has been confirmed since that this player was transgender male to female.

Dh and I have had many conversations about the rights and wrongs of allowing this.

This player had a significant physical advantage.

We would both be really interested to hear peoples thoughts on this

• [Title edited by MNHQ]

Will a woman need to be killed before this is stopped?

It won't matter to transactivists. They will claim that one very strong woman happens to have, unfortunately, killed another less strong woman.

I sincerely hope that the rest of the world would stop it.

But then again, who could have predicted that a convicted rapist would be incarcerated with vulnerable women and be allowed to assault four of them? It's 2019, not the Middle Ages.

I genuinely don't think the general public have any idea how far this has gone already.

Bluestitch I do kickboxing, and it is mixed sparring, usually if you get a Man they go easier on the woman in our Dojo, when we are in lessons, and we are told to respect one another. This time I got a big man, who did not, who went at me full pelt, I tried to give as good as I got, but obviously I was not as big or strong as him.

It was probably assumed to be a minor problem that would only involve a tiny number of people.

I suppose when the medallists are all men or trans women someone might twig that there is a problem?

Or when women who are born as women give up as it is not worth competing.

How much of a problem is this likely to be in women's sport?

Good thing it was a miniute, or I would have had a bloody eye socket or broken nose. I sometimes partner with a lovely man, but again he is 6ft 5, and sometimes does not realise his own strength, even when I tell him to go more gently. Also I think he has some kind of motor problem, as he shakes and it takes him a lot of time to process the information, rather like dyspraxia.

They're not competing in their own lane. Why not? Could it be because they're not good enough to? That's how I interpret it. It's pretty cowardly, really.

This question keeps coming up. Do people really think that someone would transition in order to cheat?

I'm not sure it's worth discussing.

I don't care.

They are cheating whether or not they've transitioned to do it.

For people who get a kick out of transitioning, it's just a double plus.

As a poster up thread has observed, there are quite a few transsexuals, generally of the old school, attracted to men, type, who aren't the slightest bit interested in taking women's rights. They do not get a kick out of transitioning, it's vital for their mental health. And they just want to get on with it, under the radar without attracting negative attention.

And what a lot of these Johnny Come Lately transwomen are doing is leveraging them to sanitise their own kink.

So no they may not be transitioning in order to cheat. But neither is transitioning the gut wrenching, soul destroying journey that it is for a lot of others.

We had a transwoman on the feminist board a few weeks ago who said they had gender euphoria.

They were delighted, to the point of feeling euphoric, that they could legitimately satisfy their kink whilst being considered progressive and brave.

Yes Datun the Karen White situation was beyond comprehension and the thing that has made me the most angry out of this whole topic.

I think we need to see a male born person winning Wimbledon or something to wake people up to what is going on. TRAs hate sunlight.

Calvinsman, cricket teams can be mixed anyway so it makes no difference does it ?

she sees herself as a woman and thinks trans women should have the same rights as women
The likes of "Karen White" show this to be untrue.

This time I got a big man, who did not, who went at me full pelt, I tried to give as good as I got, but obviously I was not as big or strong as him.

Aero I can imagine opening up contact sports in this way would be a real gift to men who enjoy hurting women. And they will even get to call you bigot if you don't want to receive your beating!

Ok well this discussion is now well and truly above my head........have to say though I am a bit peeved that MNHQ have taken it appon themselves to change the title of my thread as apparently it breaches guidelines - I can't see how adding the word "athletes" changing my original post about my dd - who is very much not an athlete!

TRAs hate sunlight.

And that is genuinely all it needs bluestitch.

Logic and rationality is on the side of gender criticism. Nonetheless, many people can utterly fail to refute any point, but still end up disagreeing with you.

Because it's a feeling. It feels wrong. It's like homophobia. Or racism. It's not fair.

They're being manipulated. And it's tricky to force someone to see how they are being manipulated, until they see the manipulator's mask drop.

(And it's not helped by there being so many cohorts, under the trans umbrella. Genuine transsexuals don't tend to be manipulating misogynists - hence the, I know a transwoman and she is absolutely delightful and wouldn't hurt a fly.)

Nonetheless, sunlight is the key.

And what a lot of these Johnny Come Lately transwomen are doing is leveraging them to sanitise their own kink

Careful now Datun - I think you mean “Judy come lately”....

Women - including all us hideous transphobes - strangely, don't have that compulsion to violence.

I'm sure some do.

Please feel free to list all those occurrences of women threatening, abusing and physically assaulting tw. I'm sure you have it ready, to prove how disgusting we are. Helpful if you could include the ones where women were charged or convicted separately, vs the ones where it is unproven/unwitnessed/unverifiable claims.

A bit off topic, but in rugby the Lions are a British team, not the English one. The English women are called the Red Roses but the men aren’t the Lions, and in fact the French refer to the England men as ‘Le 15 de la Rose’. They are sometimes called the Red and Whites, but they don’t have a regular nickname like, say the All Blacks or the Springboks.
Oh, and I agree with Martina.

I think a man’s perspective on this is different to a woman’s.

Men's perspective on fairness in sport is no different to a woman's. It's just that, because it doesn't affect them, they don't really want to risk being hounded out of their jobs and abused online.

If this affected men's sports then, yes, there would be a massive outcry from men.

sweetheart

Although it might feel above your head, I have no doubt that you will revisit this thread. As things start to click into place.

And now you have seen, first hand, how women are being censored. Even by a website largely populated by women. I can't remember what your title said, but someone will have reported it as offensive. (For which you can read informative).

If you want to know more, this is a good thread to start, although some of the terminology has since been banned on here.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Crikey. Imaging Usain Bolt running in the female Olympic games or competing in womens football.
I dont agree with the agenda and I will not be afraid to make my stance clear when necessary.
These individuals have no shame, have no scruples at their advantage because they are so accustomed to male entitlement, privilege and socialisation. Very telling!

Nonetheless, sunlight is the key.

It was interesting the other week when a notable TRA was named in the mainstream media as the person who reported someone to the police for 'misgendering'. They were outraged that this had been publicised, despite happily bragging about such stuff amongst their pals on twitter. Having it discussed beyond their usual echo chamber was awful for them because they know nobody is buying it.

Taking estrogen reduces strength in people who transition, but apparently most bigots tend to overlook this. As usual.
Trans women don't retain their pre transition strength, it's a myth. Google will tell you that if you take a look.

Seriously? You have to be joking.

Men's perspective on fairness in sport is no different to a woman's. It's just that, because it doesn't affect them, they don't really want to risk being hounded out of their jobs and abused online

If this affected men's sports then, yes, there would be a massive outcry from men

So their perspective IS different because it doesn’t affect them in the same way. A man’s perspective on the tone of women’s discussions is also different to the woman involved. It’s a side issue anyway Fair, I don’t want to hijack what is an important thread :)

Taking estrogen reduces strength in people who transition, but apparently most bigots tend to overlook this. As usual.

I'm more than happy to accept that it might reduce one's strength.

What I won't accept is that it makes you shorter, your lungs shrink, your heart beat less and your stride reduce.

Of course, the other thing it does is massively increase your sense of entitlement.

I am a bit peeved that MNHQ have taken it appon themselves to change the title of my thread
Why haven't they put 'thread title edited by MN' as they usually do?

Women's Rugby is nicknamed "Roses" - why not Lionesses?

You mean Rugby Union. The Women's Rugby League Team is nicknamed the Lionesses.

As an aside Lions refers to a conglomerate of home nations and not the English national side (of either code).

I suppose when the medallists are all men or trans women someone might twig that there is a problem?

I actually don’t think they will.

Monzo bank were asked if would see half men and half trans women on their board as meeting their gender diversity targets and they said absolutely yes.

Bluestitch that is what I thought, it went through my mind, bet he gets off on legitimately hitting a woman he certainly looked as though he was enjoying it. The other men we sparred with as we went round, were nothing but respectful, but this one well.