NDN wants to use our driveway for building work - AIBU?

[NigellaAwesome]

Having quickly checked that the thread titled 'Twat Next Door' wasn't about us, I hoped to get hive mind views on our neighbour.

This might be long, but I don't want to drip-feed. For background, we have lived next to them for about 10 years. She's OK, but he is a complete knob. We call him Gobby Gordon. We've had a few issues over the years. The first was when one of their young relatives threw stones at our car repeatedly and caused substantial damage. When I told the wife what had happened, she was very apologetic and said she would pay. The dealer quoted £800 to repair, but I got a contact to do it at knockdown price for £120 + vat. However when I went round a couple of weeks later to let her know how much it would be, the husband arrived round later ranting and raving and threw a cheque at us for £120 but giving off severely. We were a bit about it, especially since he drove a Maserati and I doubt he would have appreciated the same being done to his car. That somewhat set the tone, but we have pretty much ignored each other over the years, with a couple of exceptions.

Our driveway is between the two houses, and beyond our fence they have about a metre passageway before their gable wall. A number of years ago I arrived home to find a workman on ladders in our driveway doing work on their chimney. They hadn't let us know, and I was shocked to find him there because we have electric gates and he must have climbed over the gates / fence to get in. I almost knocked him off the ladder because I was reversing in and only saw him at the last minute. When I asked what he was doing on my property he was really abusive. He refused to leave, and police were called and I think there was some sort of warning given. Gobby Gordon gave off to my DH about it afterwards, calling us crap neighbours. When we pointed out that he hadn't had the courtesy to ask us beforehand, he said that the workman had rung our doorbell but there had been no answer (no shit Sherlock, we were out).

A few months later I saw the wife and we had a chat. She was ok, and I explained that whilst we were happy in principle with access being given, it needed to be by prior arrangement, and with one of them - not a random builder, talking to us beforehand. This has been the case since for the last few years, and we have provided access on about 3 occasions since then. The wife has always called with us, provided details of the builder, and everything has been fine with minimal disruption.

Last week we were out and we got a call from the gates (gates connect to our phone when they are called). It was a builder asking to get onto our property to look at doing some work. We were out, had no idea what he was talking about, and said it wasn't really convenient. We didn't hear anything more.

This evening we were out again, and got a call from the gates. It was a builder asking if he could speak with us. We were out, but coming back in 15 minutes, so I said if he could hang on we would chat with him. When we got back home, he was waiting for us. He knew our names, and knew a lot about us including what we do for a living (which I'm not very happy about).

The builder said he wanted access to our driveway to build scaffolding on it to rebuild the neighbour's chimney. I was pretty pissed off that I was having this conversation directly with him, and that neither of the neighbours had spoken to us about it. When I told him this, he said that he had never even met the wife, only Gobby Gordon. He told Gordon last week that he needed to speak to us about access, but Gordon hasn't bothered his arse.

When I asked about what needed to be done, he said it would be scaffolded for 7 to 10 days (so realistically likely to be 3 weeks). Our driveway will be out of action for that time, and we have 2 cars that can't be parked outside on the busy road. I'm not thrilled at the prospect of bricks being brought up and down scaffolding which could land on our driveway, our pets, or our children. I'm going through quite a stressful time in work at the moment, and I also have professional exams coming up, so really could do without 3 weeks of building work. There's more, which would be a bit outing, but it was clear from what the builder said that Gobby Gordon had discussed a lot of private information about us - information that we didn't even know that Gordon knew, so that has really, really pissed me off. The builder also laid it on really thick that he had travelled a very long way to discuss this with us. The conversation ended with me telling the builder that I was sorry for his inconvenience, but this was an issue for the neighbours to speak to us directly about, not him, and the neighbours knew the score before they sent him round to discuss it with us. DH feels a bit sorry for the builder, but I just think this is Gobby Gordon being a cheeky fucker and sending the builder round to lay it on thick rather than having the manners to speak to us directly.

This is more a WWYD rather than AIBU. MN WWYD & AIBU re CF NDN?

I don't see why they cannot scaffold from their passageway..

However, if they do this, I would still not consider your full driveway to be useable for the period the work is being done, because your cars will be at risk from falling debris if you park anywhere near!

I think the best plan is to grant permission but only for a period where you will not actually be there.

Ive just looked at your diagram op to check the measurements and we had a similar situation when we had an extension built on a previous house.

Our builder said that it was possible to have the scaffolding erected completely on our side of the boundary wall but if our neighbours would allow just the supporting scaffolding poles to be placed against the wall on their side then the scaffolding would be much safer as it would create be a wider platform.

As far as I can remember the poles took up about eight or so inches of space on the neighbour's side and once it was all in place then access was completely from our side.

I suppose it depends on exactly what the builder wants to do but it may not be as intrusive as first thought and of course it may not be technically necessary to have anything on your side at all but they could be asking as it's just easier for the builder and Gobby Gordon.

I was going to say the same as a couple of other posters. It sounds as though can erect scaffolding on their side but it would be costly and involve drilling into the property / building a platform.

He sounds like an arsehole, who needs taking down a peg or two. His poor wife.

You could consider sending a recorded delivery letter to GG stating you were approached by a man claiming to be a builder informing you access would be required to do work on your property. Inform him you did not grant permission to this unknown man. Remind him of his previous unreasonable behaviour and history of using builders, who access your property without seeking your permission and clambering over your electric gates. Remind him that you have already informed his wife that permission to access your property will only be granted if requested personally by either him or his wife. Advise him to explore the options of finding a builder willing to erect scaffolding on their side and creating a platform around the chimney or removing the chimney from the inside of the property. Inform him therefore that you do not consider it necessary to grant access to your property at this time as these options have not yet been explored. To be clear access is therefore denied. Then end the letter you were shocked to discover personal information about your life had been disclosed to this unknown man claiming to be builder. You find this disturbing and potentially dangerous. Furthermore this encounter with this unknown man has now added to already strained relations. So fuck off. Maybe missing the fuck off bit out.

You could also consider getting a solicitor to write it.

No way Hose. They will have to scaffold 'up & over'. Not your circus, not your monkeys.

And a solicitors letter too.

If there is a way to effect scaffolding totally on NDN side, albeit with extra cost or effort, then the works will go ahead but at a time of your NDN choosing. This could be right during your exams, plus you will have no say in what time they start, noise etc.
IF you allow minimal poles on your drive, you then have some bargaining power.

Has your neighbour got a drive to the other side of their property? If so I would be suggesting he parks elsewhere and allows you the use of his drive for the duration.

I’m guessing that GG has been mouthing off to the builder about his awful neighbours and how unreasonable you are hence the builder’s attitude.

We have let our nice NDN use our drive for scaffolding for their chimney but in your case I’d tell them to jog on

I would
-get my own builder to suggest if alternatives were possible.
-ask for a bond/ deposit if it is to go ahead. And not a small one.
-park on their drive. They can find somewhere else for the Maserati.

FWIW I would probably allow it. And hope karma played out in right way.

Honestly all this expense with your own solicitors and builders- the answer is no, anything that appears on your property you will remove and seek any damages through small claims- bye Gordon!

It's a no from me too OP

The work clearly needs doing but the option of putting scaffolding on your land isn't the only option, it's just the cheapest option. If the chimney of a terraced house needs attention then the scaffolding can go up from the front or rear of the property but more poles are needed so it costs more. Now you need to put a price on the use of your driveway. How valuable is that bit of land? Is parking at such a premium in your neighbourhood that a parking space could be sold for £100,000? What would the rental value be if you advertised it on websites like parkonmydrive? Or is there plenty of on-street parking and always spaces available. How much would your car insurance go up by if you always parked on-street rather than on your drive? How much do you value the time and inconvenience you will have to absorb to accommodate this request? Come up with a number for a cost to rent your driveway for 3 weeks, which you feel would be adequate compensation for all this, and put the offer in writing. Explicitly state that you can't consent to the use of your land unless compensated for the additional costs and inconvenience you will incur. Your neighbour can then choose whether the price of cheaper scaffolding plus paying you is more or less than the cost of paying for the extra scaffolding that wouldn't need your land and would only inconvenience them not you.

The additional inconvenience of the dust and noise is irrelevant as they have every right to maintain their property.

Ask yourself this op, would they do the same for you? I suspect not!

I’d swear we have the same neighbours, no electric gates though. He moaned about us occasionally walking into his side of the path between the two houses to get past an object.

Two weeks later came home to find passageway filled with scaffolding which damaged our wall. Didn’t ask cheeky fucker.

And yes, the builder was overbearing. He said that he had done work for XX who would be a loose acquaintance from my area of work, and said he could give me a reference

Why would you want or need a reference from your next door neighbour’s builder??

Op uou mentioned problems with access, did you mean to your drive or to other parts of your property - garage?

It would be a no from me.

Years ago a neighbour had rendering done on their house. The scafdold encroached onto our side and the first I knew about it was scaffolders with a radio blaring out at 7am outside my bedroom window while I stood looking at them in a nightie.

The scaffold knocked some guttering off course, and damaged the down pipe thing. There was also render splattered everywhere in our back yars which subsequently blocked the outside drain.

There will be another way to access the roof, they only need a side, they have 3 other sides to chose from, how do they think terrace house get roof works done? It's either from the front or the back.

So just say no, it's not convenient and they must use the front or back of the property and if their builder says he can't do it that way, suggest they get a different builder.

If ...... .and that's a big If, you allow the scaffolding on your land, absolutely insist on netting around it as well as end boards (to stop things getting kicked off) in addition to the tube.
We went away for a few days when they were building houses on the field next to our house. We returned on a Sunday afternoon to find they had put scaffolding up on their land but with the platform coming straight over our 6ft fence! Call to site manager on Monday morning who claimed to have inspected scaffolding when it had been erected and it was on their land only! Quick visit by him soon clarified the position and whilst I allowed the platform to remain I demanded netting be installed before anyone used the scaffolding. Following day, scaffolders arrive to raise level of scaffolding - and no sign of netting. I spoke to the chap on the scaffolding who gave me the usual "don't know anything about that luv" response so I politely suggested that he got down off the scaffolding and spoke to someone who did.

I think all the conditions that have been mentioned are reasonable and hopefully that will make it difficult enough for them to consider alternative options.

I'm absolutely shocked hat everyone is saying no. OP you cant go through life only doing things to help people if you think they'd do the same in return. The work may not seem necessary to you, but imagine if you had damp coming in and your neighbour prevented you having it fixed, for no real reason. I can't believe that so many people could be so selfish and spiteful. Just because he's an arsehole doesn't mean you have to be one too.

No he wants you to have all the mess and stress instead of him.

I'd want it in writing from another builder of your choosing that it was absolutely necessary to use your property.

What are you going to do if it turns into a nightmare build?

We have had nightmare neighbour's,never underestimate the levels of selfishness people can stoop to.

Have your neighbours got any off road parking? I'd allow access to my property if they parked their cars on the street and let me use their off road parking. Failing that, I'd just allow it though to be honest. It's annoying, but better than a dodgy chimney falling down on you one day

I think they have concocted this up between them.

GG said the job was too expensive.
GB (Gobby Builder) wants the work so says he can make it cheaper if he puts scaffolding on neighbour's drive
GG says no they'll never go for that, they need their drive to park their cars and in any case he doesn't want to be asking them any favours
GB now desperate to secure the job says don't worry, I'll sweet talk them into it, what do you know about them
GG spills all the info he has
GB says leave it with me, we'll get this done cheaper for you

GB uses pushy sales tactics on OP
OP knows a CF when she sees one so is resistant
GB gets more insistent
OPDH starts to crumble
OP consults MN
NV (nest of vipers) tell OP hell no
OP wants to say no but is looking for reasons to back her up

OP you don't need insurers or surveyors to help you explain your reasons. Just tell them no. It's nothing to do with you, you don't give permission.

I don't understand why he needs to put the scaffolding on your side. We have a sort of similar set up to you and when we had our roof done last year the scaffolding was put up in our passageway that is about a metre wide. It blocked access to our garden but that was a minor inconvenience.

No. Just no. They can cough up more for unconventional scaffolding, and they have a metre to work with anyway.

I would say "no"

I would also (as he will have to find away to go ahead with this), make sure that he understands that any damage or mess caused will have to be sorted and paid for by him.

Even down to cleaning windows.

Fgs saying no isn't being spiteful. It's saying no. Projection much?