NDN wants to use our driveway for building work - AIBU?

[NigellaAwesome]

Having quickly checked that the thread titled 'Twat Next Door' wasn't about us, I hoped to get hive mind views on our neighbour.

This might be long, but I don't want to drip-feed. For background, we have lived next to them for about 10 years. She's OK, but he is a complete knob. We call him Gobby Gordon. We've had a few issues over the years. The first was when one of their young relatives threw stones at our car repeatedly and caused substantial damage. When I told the wife what had happened, she was very apologetic and said she would pay. The dealer quoted £800 to repair, but I got a contact to do it at knockdown price for £120 + vat. However when I went round a couple of weeks later to let her know how much it would be, the husband arrived round later ranting and raving and threw a cheque at us for £120 but giving off severely. We were a bit about it, especially since he drove a Maserati and I doubt he would have appreciated the same being done to his car. That somewhat set the tone, but we have pretty much ignored each other over the years, with a couple of exceptions.

Our driveway is between the two houses, and beyond our fence they have about a metre passageway before their gable wall. A number of years ago I arrived home to find a workman on ladders in our driveway doing work on their chimney. They hadn't let us know, and I was shocked to find him there because we have electric gates and he must have climbed over the gates / fence to get in. I almost knocked him off the ladder because I was reversing in and only saw him at the last minute. When I asked what he was doing on my property he was really abusive. He refused to leave, and police were called and I think there was some sort of warning given. Gobby Gordon gave off to my DH about it afterwards, calling us crap neighbours. When we pointed out that he hadn't had the courtesy to ask us beforehand, he said that the workman had rung our doorbell but there had been no answer (no shit Sherlock, we were out).

A few months later I saw the wife and we had a chat. She was ok, and I explained that whilst we were happy in principle with access being given, it needed to be by prior arrangement, and with one of them - not a random builder, talking to us beforehand. This has been the case since for the last few years, and we have provided access on about 3 occasions since then. The wife has always called with us, provided details of the builder, and everything has been fine with minimal disruption.

Last week we were out and we got a call from the gates (gates connect to our phone when they are called). It was a builder asking to get onto our property to look at doing some work. We were out, had no idea what he was talking about, and said it wasn't really convenient. We didn't hear anything more.

This evening we were out again, and got a call from the gates. It was a builder asking if he could speak with us. We were out, but coming back in 15 minutes, so I said if he could hang on we would chat with him. When we got back home, he was waiting for us. He knew our names, and knew a lot about us including what we do for a living (which I'm not very happy about).

The builder said he wanted access to our driveway to build scaffolding on it to rebuild the neighbour's chimney. I was pretty pissed off that I was having this conversation directly with him, and that neither of the neighbours had spoken to us about it. When I told him this, he said that he had never even met the wife, only Gobby Gordon. He told Gordon last week that he needed to speak to us about access, but Gordon hasn't bothered his arse.

When I asked about what needed to be done, he said it would be scaffolded for 7 to 10 days (so realistically likely to be 3 weeks). Our driveway will be out of action for that time, and we have 2 cars that can't be parked outside on the busy road. I'm not thrilled at the prospect of bricks being brought up and down scaffolding which could land on our driveway, our pets, or our children. I'm going through quite a stressful time in work at the moment, and I also have professional exams coming up, so really could do without 3 weeks of building work. There's more, which would be a bit outing, but it was clear from what the builder said that Gobby Gordon had discussed a lot of private information about us - information that we didn't even know that Gordon knew, so that has really, really pissed me off. The builder also laid it on really thick that he had travelled a very long way to discuss this with us. The conversation ended with me telling the builder that I was sorry for his inconvenience, but this was an issue for the neighbours to speak to us directly about, not him, and the neighbours knew the score before they sent him round to discuss it with us. DH feels a bit sorry for the builder, but I just think this is Gobby Gordon being a cheeky fucker and sending the builder round to lay it on thick rather than having the manners to speak to us directly.

This is more a WWYD rather than AIBU. MN WWYD & AIBU re CF NDN?

And and and ... builder insisted on shaking my hand on meeting me as I got out of the car coming back from Sainsburys.

Now I know this is the unreasonable part of me coming out, but it just feels horribly intrusive and manipulative.

I'll give my insurer a call tomorrow to seek their advice.

Is it only me that feels sorry for his wife?

He's an absolute arse, isn't he!

But I thought timeisnotaline's post was excellent.

I'm in the "allow it... you don't want to escalate bad neighbour relations" camp, but I do agree that it would be beter for ALL if there was a clear, signed agreement in place (although note the point from a PP about how enforceable this might be). A future job for Judge Rinder, perhaps?

x-posted with about 10 posters.

Also noted how intruded-on you feel by GG sharing so much personal info about you, OP.

That's a big part of your gripe, I think, and it hasn't really been addressed by this thread.

Nope nope nope
Nope nope nope
Nope nope nope

He's a bully.

@NigellaAwesome Sorry if I missed it in an update, but could you park on their drive, if the have one, if your own were to be out of action?

Also, much as the builder sounds like he is clearly in cahoots with GG, could you ask him what happens if you say no? I agree with PP there may well be other ways to have the work done internally but then GG has the inconvenience, not you. Wonder why he hasn't chosen that approach.

DO NOT rely on an agreement whereby you think you can influence when they work/ timings as you're not the one paying them, once that scaffolding is up, they'll do their own thing.

I wouldn't feel bullied by this nor whatever personal (irrelevant) info GG has told the builder. I'd want to keep the peace so be round to speak to GG and wife asking 'I thought we got on and were good neighbours which is why I've let you do xyz from my land so why on earth have you sent your builder around for this conversation?' Make them squirm! They are CF!

Talk to Mrs Gobby Gordon. She may make you feel better. She probably isn't aware of what's going on if the builder said he's never seen her, and she's been ok in the past.

We had a similar scenario, but we were the neighbours doing the work. We needed to fix broken tiles on our roof. We have a narrow passageway between our houses, but not wide enough for a scaffold or ladder. We asked out neighbours if we could put some of the supports for the scaffold on their side. We introduced the roofer to our neighbours and he explained the work, and also confirmed he had insurance , so he would make do any damage caused , he also put down wood/mdf(?) to protect their path. You do have to allow access for repairs but it should be agreed and you need to get the details of the builders insurers .

@FlamingoFlamenco That would not be worth the paper it's written on, unless motorised by a Solicitor

*notorised

I wouldn't be inclined to do anything at all to facilitate this.

You've been quite clear to your ndn previously that any work/access requests need to come directly from them. GG hasn't bothered, therefore no action needed from you.

How dare he share your personal info with this builder who also sounds like an entitled arse- came a long way to see you indeed ?!

Really not your problem!

Can they access the roof from the other side of GGs house? Obviously not as convenient as coming at the chimney from your side, but surely doable?

Given that GG is a total tool I wouldn't enter into any agreement with him. He'll agree to whatever you ask/demand and then just do what he wants and you'll be left to try and enforce what was agreed to.

I'd also look at getting cctv coverage for your driveway/property for while the works are happening in case any damage is done. You can get portable/temp cameras that you can install yourself.

From your list, your only options are 1 and 4. Choosing 2 or 3 would make you a mug.

It be a massive NO from me with nobs on and whistles. Learn to stand up for yourselves.

Jesus. No, just NO.

Given they have space they can do it just on their ground but it will cost more, ergo they want you to bear the costs of this to minimise their financial costs. And whilst beig CF of the HIGHEST order.

I utterly appreciate your disquiet at your personal details being shared with the builders and then fed back to you as reasons to 'support' their case - I'd be fucking raging at that alone.

Best MN line ever - 'NO is a complete sentence'

Also, why is your DH being such a sap re this? Why is he keen to facilitate a man who has treated you like shit? That too would be boiling my piss TBH.

Where's your husband's upside in this or does he think is he deluded enough to think this will somehow end up all sunshine and roses in spite of all evidence to the contrary?

And and and ... builder insisted on shaking my hand on meeting me as I got out of the car coming back from Sainsburys.

Oh I see- so this tale of cheeky fuckery was all an elaborate set-up for a stealth boast about shopping in Sainsbury's! [Wink]

DoJo it was actually Asda, but with the upcoming merger it's as close as Sainsburys as to not make a difference.

I was in your neighbour's position; needing scaffolding on next door's driveway for chimney repairs. Our neighbours need constant access, so blocking it off for the duration wasn't an option.

The scaffolders erected a sort of 'bridge', whereby there were upright poles spaced to allow cars to get in & out, with the main scaffolding platform etc all being higher up. It can be done. Maybe ask your neighbours to request that their scaffolders come up with a configuration which will still allow you full use of your property?

3 things

1. They scaffold full multi-story building works in just the width of the pavement, so I am sure they can do a chimmney scaffold in 1 metre if that is all they had
2. If you do let them scaffold on your side then make them put down boards to spread the point load coming down the scaffold poles, otherwise the support poles will sink into your tarmac/garden and wont be easily made right
3. Since he is obviously a CF, dont let them set one toenail on your property until you have 1000 pounds in an independant bank account (I would call it an escrow account but am in the US) so that if there is any damage, the money is already there to fix it,and there is no debating or waiting for CF to cough up

Gordon The Goblin needs to grovel. He needs to work for this. You need to make him plead. Perhaps don’t let him speak to your husband.

My friend had a similar issue, crappy rude and entitled neighbours who wanted to erect scaffolding in their land to replace a chimney.
They were also asked by the builder not the neighbour. My friend wrote to them (recorded delivery as a PP suggested) and confirmed they could use her land for said scaffolding at a price of £250 per day with the predicted 3 weeks worth of payment due upfront. She went on to say if the scaffolding went up without permission, or if her land was used for any other building related access without prior arrangement, then the daily fee would be £1000 per day.
Needless to say she didn’t hear from the CF’s again.

But in your situation with nowhere to park your cars,’I would say no. And in writing sent by RD so that there is no ambiguity in your answer!

My foul mouthed, abusive ndn apparently 'needed' to take over my garden with his scaffolding. I said no. Had they asked instead of told me, it might have been different. They managed without. Just took a bit more thinking on the part of the scaffolders.

Losing your parking for weeks on end? Jog on. But i would consider penguin bollards. You'll have builders vans etc on your frontage the second you leave for work. Not necessarily a problem as such, but i would be loath to assist your neighbour!

GG was abusive about paying for £120 in damage caused by his visitor. You can guarantee that if his builder caused damage he'd make you pursue the builder for it. Lots of time, stress and likely financial inconvenience for you.

The discomfort you felt from talking to the builder already is very important. This man would be on your property everyday. It's bad enough if it's for your own building works but at least then there is the incentive that they have to make things right to get the second half of their payment. Unfortunately GG has made it clear that he doesn't give a shit about you so where is the incentive for the builder to minimise inconvenience?!

In case your DH hasn't noticed, you don't have a good relationship with your neighbours anyway. You have nothing to lose by saying a firm no but A LOT to lose if you say yes. Time for DH to grow a backbone.

I’d say no

DH has suggested that we say yes, but arrange for a time that we are away to minimise disruption. I think that is even worse, as I want to be here to supervise, although I do see his point .

At the risk of sounding all, "Listen to your husband, little lady!" I do think he is right. It's reasonable for them to repair their chimney but also reasonable for you to worry about the noise (I've lived with next-door construction and I'm pretty sensitive to noise myself, and I wouldn't want to listen to all that again any time soon if I could help it), so the best thing surely would be for you to avoid it as much as possible.

The fact that Gobby Gordon is an ass is, sadly, irrelevant in this scenario. I say that with sympathy!