NDN wants to use our driveway for building work - AIBU?

[NigellaAwesome]

Having quickly checked that the thread titled 'Twat Next Door' wasn't about us, I hoped to get hive mind views on our neighbour.

This might be long, but I don't want to drip-feed. For background, we have lived next to them for about 10 years. She's OK, but he is a complete knob. We call him Gobby Gordon. We've had a few issues over the years. The first was when one of their young relatives threw stones at our car repeatedly and caused substantial damage. When I told the wife what had happened, she was very apologetic and said she would pay. The dealer quoted £800 to repair, but I got a contact to do it at knockdown price for £120 + vat. However when I went round a couple of weeks later to let her know how much it would be, the husband arrived round later ranting and raving and threw a cheque at us for £120 but giving off severely. We were a bit about it, especially since he drove a Maserati and I doubt he would have appreciated the same being done to his car. That somewhat set the tone, but we have pretty much ignored each other over the years, with a couple of exceptions.

Our driveway is between the two houses, and beyond our fence they have about a metre passageway before their gable wall. A number of years ago I arrived home to find a workman on ladders in our driveway doing work on their chimney. They hadn't let us know, and I was shocked to find him there because we have electric gates and he must have climbed over the gates / fence to get in. I almost knocked him off the ladder because I was reversing in and only saw him at the last minute. When I asked what he was doing on my property he was really abusive. He refused to leave, and police were called and I think there was some sort of warning given. Gobby Gordon gave off to my DH about it afterwards, calling us crap neighbours. When we pointed out that he hadn't had the courtesy to ask us beforehand, he said that the workman had rung our doorbell but there had been no answer (no shit Sherlock, we were out).

A few months later I saw the wife and we had a chat. She was ok, and I explained that whilst we were happy in principle with access being given, it needed to be by prior arrangement, and with one of them - not a random builder, talking to us beforehand. This has been the case since for the last few years, and we have provided access on about 3 occasions since then. The wife has always called with us, provided details of the builder, and everything has been fine with minimal disruption.

Last week we were out and we got a call from the gates (gates connect to our phone when they are called). It was a builder asking to get onto our property to look at doing some work. We were out, had no idea what he was talking about, and said it wasn't really convenient. We didn't hear anything more.

This evening we were out again, and got a call from the gates. It was a builder asking if he could speak with us. We were out, but coming back in 15 minutes, so I said if he could hang on we would chat with him. When we got back home, he was waiting for us. He knew our names, and knew a lot about us including what we do for a living (which I'm not very happy about).

The builder said he wanted access to our driveway to build scaffolding on it to rebuild the neighbour's chimney. I was pretty pissed off that I was having this conversation directly with him, and that neither of the neighbours had spoken to us about it. When I told him this, he said that he had never even met the wife, only Gobby Gordon. He told Gordon last week that he needed to speak to us about access, but Gordon hasn't bothered his arse.

When I asked about what needed to be done, he said it would be scaffolded for 7 to 10 days (so realistically likely to be 3 weeks). Our driveway will be out of action for that time, and we have 2 cars that can't be parked outside on the busy road. I'm not thrilled at the prospect of bricks being brought up and down scaffolding which could land on our driveway, our pets, or our children. I'm going through quite a stressful time in work at the moment, and I also have professional exams coming up, so really could do without 3 weeks of building work. There's more, which would be a bit outing, but it was clear from what the builder said that Gobby Gordon had discussed a lot of private information about us - information that we didn't even know that Gordon knew, so that has really, really pissed me off. The builder also laid it on really thick that he had travelled a very long way to discuss this with us. The conversation ended with me telling the builder that I was sorry for his inconvenience, but this was an issue for the neighbours to speak to us directly about, not him, and the neighbours knew the score before they sent him round to discuss it with us. DH feels a bit sorry for the builder, but I just think this is Gobby Gordon being a cheeky fucker and sending the builder round to lay it on thick rather than having the manners to speak to us directly.

This is more a WWYD rather than AIBU. MN WWYD & AIBU re CF NDN?

It doesn't need to be in the deeds (though if it is it would definitely be a reason not to say no), the Access to Neighbouring Land Act can allow people to enter neighbouring land to carry out maintenance.

I'd say no. It's simply too inconvenient, never mind the risk of damage if rubble comes down and compromised security on your property whilst the work is ongoing.

There will be another option. They will be able to use a mobile platform, or a cantilevered scaffold access of some type, as is done for Waterside properties where one elevation of the building is simply not accessible, It will just cost them more.

Don't make his life easier and cheaper to your detriment especially after he has been so ruddy rude in the past.

My rubbish attempt at a diagram:

Just be aware your neighbour might resort to apying for a court order under the Access to Neighbouring Land Act 1992. It is not a given they'd be able to use your drive but you ought to be aware of it. Also, the Faculty of Party Wall Surveyors website has info on the Party Wall Act.

I reckon there must be another solution to their access issue but it’s likely to cost them more money and time so they want the easy option.

Based on the fact they haven’t even spoken to you about the scaffolding on your property d tell them no and get them to come up with an alternative solution.

That diagram is perfectly adequate.

I'd be inclined to tell them where to shove their scaffolding but I can be a bit hot-headed. You're right to consider other options for the sake of future relations.

What an arse, though.

Might this help?
Often it is vital for one neighbour to go on to the land of another to carry out repairs to their own property. Accordingly, there is a legal right that allows this under the Access to Neighbouring Land Act 1992.
Generally, if you go onto to your neighbours land without their permission, you are trespassing. However, if you wish to repair your home, you may go onto your neighbours land without getting their permission.
Before going on your neighbours land, you should still ask their permission. You can do this by requesting access to your neighbour’s land in a letter. If they do not want to let you and try to stop entry, you can seek an order from the court forcing them to give you access.
The Access to Neighbouring Land Act 1992 enables access to adjoining or adjacent land for the purpose of carrying out “basic preservation works” to one’s own property. Basic preservation works includes:
Maintenance, repair or renewal of a building;
Clearance, repair or renewal of a drain, sewer, pipe or cable;
Filling in or clearing a ditch;
Felling,
removal or replacement of a tree, hedge or other plant that is *Dead, diseased, insecurely rooted or which is likely to be dangerous.
If you need to be granted right of access, proceedings must be commenced in the County Court. The court will grant an access order if it is satisfied that the preservation works are:
Reasonably necessary for the preservation of the relevant land; and
That they cannot be carried out, or would be very difficult to carry out, without entry onto the adjoining land.

The trouble with conditions is that if they don't follow them how do you enforce?

I would just say no. It's not your business and you don't want to get involved.

I would either do as your DH says and arrange for it to be done while you're away, or if they have a drive insist that you park on it while work is being done.

Well according to the diagram they don't need to use your drive, could put the scaffolding behind their house. Obviously would be more expensive but that's not really your problem.

@StoneofDestiny in this case it's not "vital" for them to have access. It's just easier.

We had two chimneys done last year. Scaffold partly on neighbouring property (shared chimney so in their interests) but access all our side. Scaffolding was up for weeks. Scaffolding firm not same as builders and they didn’t have another job to take it to so left at ours! Job took slightly longer than expected too. Lots of little bits of falling debris as some parts needed rebuilding but others ‘pointing’. Lots of scrapey noises. Not sure if nets would have caught all the bits (but we didn’t have any anyway). Wouldn’t have wanted cars anywhere near by. Wasn’t stressful but then it was ‘our’ job not someone else’s on our land! Wishing you luck.

Exactly - so it's OP's call. (Unless they claim it's vital work)

I'd not be out when builders were on my property. I'd be in or get someone else to be. I'd not trust them - I'd get a contract drawn up with conditions agreed.

Why can't the scaffolding be erected on their pathway? I'm sure I have seen scaffolding before which is less than 1 metre wide.

If they did apply for an access order they would just get their builder to come up with some bullshit reason why they had to come onto the neighbouring property. So the OP would have to be trying to argue the case against a professional, unless they got someone to demonstrate how it could be done, which would cost them money.

So the potential outcomes are:

1. Say yes but agree to certain conditions.
2. Say no and they manage to do it another way.
3. Say no and they go to court to get an access order, which would normally include conditions.

It was a couple of years ago, but our neighbours had a re-roof, and they needed their drive to access the rear. So they built a platform front to back using some long lattice style support beams, which went to a platform each end, and they built scaffold above that, no legs down into the ground at the side of the house. The whole of the side was ensconced in some semi-clear sheeting that tied down and broke away every time the wind blew causing us many sleepless nights with the noise of it flapping which meant no stray tiles/bricks and very little dust landed on our car

Our neighbours refused to have our scaffolding on their side, and there's only a tiny gap between our walls.
Fine, that's their right (we still get on!).

Our scaffolder managed to do some clever overhanging thing which didn't touch their property at all. Issue solved.

With this in mind, I don't see any need for the scaffold to be on your drive, although it sounds like you may have to park under the platform?

And I'd wait until CF NDN has the balls to come and ask himself. What a dick.

Make sure you include cleaning up all remaining rubble on your land as part of the contract too!!!

I think you re being ridiculous. Far better scaffolding and a builder for three weeks than a chimney with no notice (on your drive way that is) He needs access for reasonable repairs - OK he hasn't gone about it in the best way but I think you need to swallow the attitud and be a bit gracious about it and let them get on.

I would speak to your insurance co and you'll possibly have legal insurance so you can check if your ndn have any right to insist on access.

Living in London in a terraced house by dsis has had issues with party walls, roof extensions, builders going onto her property without notice while she is there. Not to mention weekend working.

Ariella, we reroofed a couple of years ago, and it was a complete nightmare. Tiles and nails everywhere, but confined to our property. This is why I really don't want to be involved in facilitating next door (apart from Gordon being a dick).

I don't know enough about alternative options for access. I wonder if I spoke to our insurers could they provide us with some advice? It might also take some of the emotion out of the situation. Who else could advise? I sort of know a quantity surveyor - is that the sort of thing they would know about?

DH has said he doesn't know why I'm asking here as MN is a bunch of vipers who don't care if we get on with our neighbours

No. Think about scaffolding, builders, noise, dust, skips, lorries coming and going delivering supplies etc. You will have all the mess and hassle and no thanks from your neighbours. Just no.

Certainly worth insisting on getting your own builders around to determine if it can be done without using your drive...

No. No. No.

Looks to me that to use your drive will just make it easier and cheaper for your NDN. If the scaffolding was on and blocking their pathway would it course an access problem for them? is that why they want it on your drive?