To ask what happened to having traditional values?

[mozzarellasticks]

I'm 23 and from a very young age I was told that it was 'right' to live life in a 'traditional' order.
For example: being in a relationship with someone, buying a house, getting married, and then having kids.
Not trying to be smug or on a high horse, just wondering what happened and why people are getting pregnant after knowing someone for 5 minutes. I'm generally considered to be have old fashioned views but want to know why no one else feels the same way

MephistophelesApprentice

The OP might want to think a bit more about what the world was like for women when we all did things the "traditional" way. My aunt, who is now in her 80s, was obliged to marry my uncle because she'd got pregnant, abortion was illegal at the time, and there was a strong social stigma against having children out of wedlock. Her life was utterly miserable because he turned out to be a boorish oaf who was emotionally abusive to boot. Tradition was all about running the world for the convenience of men and setting them up with a domestic chattel/breeding machine/punch bag who would do all the boring shit and produce lots of kiddies with his surname. I can't express how glad I am that things aren't like this any more.

I understand the buying a house thing to a point, it obviously provides more stability for a family than renting from a private landlord that could just choose to sell up. I'd encourage a young person to try and make saving for a deposit a priority but that's not going to be much help to anyone who isn't in a position financially to do so.

don't agree with having children outside of marriage, neither do I love 'blended' families.

So if someone's partner dies they should wear mourning black the rest of their lives and lock themselves away?

Aye, traditional values like women having no status, unable to have a mortgage in their name, being lawfully raped by their husbands.

Traditional values like sending gay men to prison.

Traditional values like sending neuro disabled and mentally unwell people to rot in institutions where they could be abused, unchecked, and forgotten about by their families and the rest of society.

Yes I wish we still had the cane in school, bullying, homophobia and racism, rape in marriage, wife beating. The good old days. I particularly loved it when girls only learnt how to be a wife and mother at school.

Im going to answer this op as hoping you nave rather than a troll. Sadly life doesnt happen as you said. In theory i did it right marrying, getting house then dd. However dh and i were married years moving from one rented place to another. We not from rich parents so cant afford dc if one of us doesnt work. Then my grandparents died and we were able to die and have dd but im old. Very old in having dd so she be only one. The years when we sofa surfed but were married will never leave me. It could come back so quick. Its vvvvv rare to buy a house now unless you live up north and have parent help. I have a friend same age as me really wanted to get married and have dc. Despite being beautiful inside and out time was running out for her so she went down the donar route to get her dc who are loved. She has the house and dc just not thr marriage. I know of a friend of mine who married young as her dh was dying. She had the dc with him but no dh or house. I have a friend whos boyfriend took on his ex gf little boy when she died so have a step child thats no link to her or her dc but she loves both dcwith every breath in her body. These are just some examples. Theres 100000s of reasons why things happen differently to say nothing of the fact 23 is vvvv young and for most you just leaving uni. Come back onto mn in 10 years and reread what youve written. Life happens! Its never as you think. At 23 i wanted to be married to a farmer and breed goats and chickens.....im glad im not now...be very smelly although dh said we can get chickens one day just they not suitable ina terrance house. Backyard. I bet if you asked all mn what they wanted at 23 it be totally different to what happens. At 23 (unless you had a few knock) you selfish and cant see anything but black and white. The longer the live the longer i realise nothing is what you think and most things are grey. Theres no right and wrong. Thats the beauty of life...you keep learning! Tradtional valves being not what you think. (But im only one voice as im sure what im saying is wrong for alot of people)

Going by my amateur genealogy, ‘traditional values’ in my family for the past few hundred years has meant “get married in a hurry then welcome Baby #1 6/7 months later.” I feel like I’ve let my great-great-grandmothers down by taking longer to do things.

I was all excited waiting for mephistopoles to go on his traditional rampage

And now im all disappointed

Why is that order any better?

It makes sense to get to know the father of your children well, find out if you share values, whether he's abusive or controlling, is prepared to commit to being a stable family and is someone you can share your life/home with.

It makes sense to plan your life and get on the career ladder and are earning enough to support a family before you start one.

It makes sense to save for a house deposit when you are free to live in cheaper accommodation and don't need to rent a place big enough for a family. It's obviously more difficult to save that kind of money when you already have children. I do understand that in the SE especially it's still not always going to be possible.

On the whole there are still good reasons for making those choices which many on here consider outdated.

I'm with you op, we was brought up that way.

My sister met her boyfriend and after 1 year got engaged. Leading up to their wedding her future husband got them a home and everything to fill it.

They got married and went on their honeymoon from their wedding reception, then when they got back they moved straight into their home. Everything was new and fresh and they started their married life together.They've been married 2 years now and are trying for a baby. IMO that's how things should go.

I did the same (minus the honeymoon) and got divorced after 4 years because I'm a rebel 😂

And unless meph is actually gonna rampage then i think im at least the joint winner of ' did it in the traditional way'

53rd same here

I personally wanted to be married before I had my children. ( I did) that was important to me, but I don't care what other people do.

What I will say is, people underestimate the legal protection that comes with marriage, especially if you have children. A friend of mine found this out too late, together with her partner for 12 years, 3 children, her partner died suddenly & she was not entitled to his pension / widows allowence. She lost her house, she presumed there was common law protection for cohabiting couples, there isn't.

What happened to Traditional Values?
They were viciously murdered by Beatle mania and The Rolling Stones in the 1960s.

Or Communism in the 1920s.

I was brought up to believe in 'traditional' values, being a good girl I followed them. Married, moved in together, had child. It wasn't the perfect world I was told it would be. Got cheated on, found my voice, got divorced and my child will be told traditional values are out-dated tosh. There's more than one way to live a good life.

I do hope you're not having sex with your partner OP because traditional values would dictate you remain pure and virginal until your wedding night.

Traditional values have long been a way to help oppress women, gay people and other minority groups. I don't think doing things in a certain order makes you better than anyone else.

I did Uni, got a job, bought a flat, met man, married man, had child, chose not to have more children, eventually divorced man and sold house.

Am currently a single parent, living with my parents. Wasn't quite what I had in mind 20 years ago but life can be a bitch!

Lots of people also hastily married before their pregnancy was too obvious. My great granny was 5 months pregnant on her wedding day

I agree with you, OP. However, I've found the majority of people I know in real life follow the traditional values - house, marriage then babies.

However, you will need your hard hat as this post will not go down well.

"What happened to having traditional values?"

People who aren't middle class white men realised that "traditional values" is code for "The values that benefit middle class white men the most".

Why would people adhere to a value system that doesn't benefit them? Be sensible.

I’m so glad I believe in following your heart and not just living my life according to “tradition and what others expect”. Quite simply life is far too short and true happiness far too rare not to just do what is right at the time.
I bought a house at 27, married at 29 to the most wonderful man who fortunately became my best friend although we didn’t survive as husband and wife, rekindled with my highschool sweetheart, divorced, got pregnant, had my beautiful little boy at age 39 and married 2mths ago at 40.

So zero tradition BUT I’m married to the love of my life, have the most amazing little boy who I never thought I’d have - and even in the grip of hideous PND is the light of my life, a lovely home and a job I love. I wouldn’t trade a thing in my life for the sake of tradition.

I think the only absolute right way to do things is to give your major choices proper consideration and due diligence. If you do that it doesn’t matter what order you do things. But it would avoid all the babies born to people where one parent doesn’t want them and neither parent can stand the other. And all the damage and misery that comes with those situations.

If you have been as careful as possible, and chosen your partner as carefully as possible, well sometimes life can still fuck you over but at least you’ve done your best to avoid avoidable disasters.

OP, your argument is someone self-defeating because 'traditional values' dictate that women should get back in the kitchen and not express views in public without a husband's permission.

That’s not my view...... I merely seek to point out that 'traditional' can be a long way from 'desirable'.

My personal experience is the opposite of the OP, i have a few friends who are in 'bad relationships' because they are so desperate to tick the 'Traditional' check list.

House marriage, kids, dog......

I sometimes feel like there is a lot pressure on young people today to figure things out so quickly.

For me personally my career is very important to me, so other things are on hold.

I think there is something to be said for old fashioned values in some respects - I know so many women who have five, six or even seven babies with different men and nobody bats an eyelid these days.
My dad always brought us up to have good table manners, hold doors open, give our seat, say please and Thankyou etc and that all seems to be slowly vanishing. Even things like wearing a suit to a funeral is something that I see as normal and just good manners but people just don't do it these days - am I maybe just old fashioned?