To ask what happened to having traditional values?

[mozzarellasticks]

I'm 23 and from a very young age I was told that it was 'right' to live life in a 'traditional' order.
For example: being in a relationship with someone, buying a house, getting married, and then having kids.
Not trying to be smug or on a high horse, just wondering what happened and why people are getting pregnant after knowing someone for 5 minutes. I'm generally considered to be have old fashioned views but want to know why no one else feels the same way

I don't agree with having children outside of marriage, neither do I love 'blended' families.

I was born into a 'blended family'. It had its challenges, but all in all I'm glad my mum found a second husband who loved her and left her first husband who put her in hospital more than once. I would encourage any woman to do the same as she did rather than worry themselves about "traditional values".

I don’t do anything simply because it’s ‘traditional’ I think through the options and do what’s best for me and my family in my situation. I suggest you do the same

Does it really matter? I did it in this order:
Babies, marriage and then mortgage.
How does that affect you?

Op....please tell us how you afforded a house at 23?

In the past I think a lot of people married because they wanted a shag! My grandparents got married after knowing each other for a month. I like the way things are now, less judgement and freedom to do what you want to do not what you have to do because someone tells you to..

Absolutely and lets be real, you really don't know a person properly until you live with them

I owned a house at 23 and was married with kids..
I’m now divorced and living with my partner and 2 more kids and rent my house!
You never know how life is good to go.

Met exH at 23
Moved in together
Got married
Tried for kids for years
Found out he was infertile
Spilt up few years later

Met dh
Got pregnant after 3 months
Got married 2.5 years later.

It's life! You can't predict or plan it

Going not good

During these golden ages of traditional values, there was nothing stopping people getting married after five minutes. Was that sensible? And often that was because of a pregnancy. But all fine, because the marriage is the main thing.

Those old-fashioned, "traditional values" often led to people marrying partner that they hardly knew, because a baby was on the way. Then the couple was stuck in a marriage which may or may not have been happy. Anyone who dared to have a baby outside of marriage, was fair game for people to judge and shame...and the poor baby was either whipped away for adoption, or lived with mum and bore the horrible title of "illegitimate" or simply a bastard.

I'm old enough to remember girls who "had to get married" and girls who gave up babies and then lived with regret all their lives.

The picture really wasn't all that rosy, OP. You're just cherry-picking the bits which appeal to you - not the reality of what happened in "the traditional times".

I'm 23 and from a very young age I was told that it was 'right' to live life in a 'traditional' order.

So not your choice then op just the way you were told to be.

Ok OP, I'll bite.

Partner and I live in London, we moved here when we were your age. We moved because he had a job here and this is the only place in the country where he can do his job.

We rented a flat at £1200 a month, that is now upto £1400 a month. We'd love to buy a house however flat and houses round here average around £500,000 for a flat to well over a million for a house.. How exactly are people meant to save up for a deposit? If we move further out it's going to cost thousands more in travel.

What are we meant to do? Not have children because we can't afford to buy a house?

Yes, we do live in the south east but there are so many parts of this country where people just can't afford to buy.

I agree with getting pregnant after knowing each other five minutes however just because you've managed to buy a house at the age of 23, doesn't mean everyone can.

I wouldn't think most people do things 'traditionally' anymore. People get married/have children much later in life than they did before. Men and women no longer play the traditional roles of women stays at home chained to the kitchen sink and men are the breadwinners. Traditionally people were much more sexist, racist etc. There is much more freedom to make choices, be it good or bad choices, without fear of being socially ostracised.

For the record, I had DS at 18, split up with his dad at 20 (I did know him for 2 years before having DS if that makes me any better ), bought my first flat and got my dream job at 23. I have a long term boyfriend, we live apart, I have no intentions of ever getting married or having any more children. For all your traditional values, it seems very small minded to not be able to understand that people, quite simply, want to live their life without the same restrictions.

Getting married is a way of focusing on the question of whether both parents are willing at least to commit to trying to ensure a stable family for any children. I think it is careless deliberately to have children with a partner who isn't willing to make that public commitment. Of course some marriages fail; and of course accidents happen but there should be a conscious decision to try to form a stable family. If there is that commitment then there is no reason not to marry.

House ownership is a red herring; but again, I don't think people should deliberately have children if they can't afford it.

These are not private questions. People who bring children into unstable environments create difficulties for society as a whole and we all end up paying the price.

I also felt that way. Still kind of do but life got in the way.

I was with my BF for a few years before we decided to try for a baby. The issue was however, he had a very cushy life living at home with his parents (I swear to god that woman would have wiped his arse too if he had let her) and he also didn't really think marriage was a big deal (again, thanks to his MARRIED parents who pooh-poohed the idea of us getting married as unnecessary and called it "just a piece of paper") so he didn't properly move out of his mum's and into my house until 3 months before our first baby's due date and I was screaming at him that if he thought I'd be living as a single mum while he lived at home and visited here all day every day he was sorely mistaken. I honestly don't know how it ended up that way. We were every bit a proper couple but he wouldn't cut those apron strings and take the leap.

Marriage proposal finally came 8 years and 3 kids later! It was completely against my values doing it all the wrong way round but I love my husband and we did eventually end up married with 3 wonderful children.

My husband was the reason we didn't do it the traditionally right way but had I given the ultimatums of marriage, moving in then babies or never doing it at all I'd be either alone or missing out on this wonderful life we have.

Oh to be young and smug! Live and let live for goodness sake. Treat people as you would like to be treated and get over yourself

Thank goodness for people like you, op, here to show the rest of us sinners the error of our ways. Your guidance is so important to us.

Why is that order any better?

I'm 23 and from a very young age I was told that it was 'right' to live life in a 'traditional' order. For example: being in a relationship with someone, buying a house, getting married, and then having kids.
Not trying to be smug or on a high horse, just wondering what happened and why people are getting pregnant after knowing someone for 5 minutes. I'm generally considered to be have old fashioned views but want to know why no one else feels the same way

Bit of a stretch to say that "no-one feels the same way" - I do too, was brought up that way and did things that way round.

Because people have different values and views?
I personally would not consider having a child or buying a house together unless we were married. other people think differently or value other things more- shocker!

BTW, people who married and had children in "traditional" days were often stuck in abusive marriages because of the stigma of divorce and single parenting. Oh, and the women didn't have great job opportunities so mostly couldn't support themselves. Be glad you get a CHOICE in your views/actions and aren't forced down one path.

Bold fail

In an ideal world many people probably would choose to do things in that order, in reality this isn’t always as the chips land; and nothing wrong with that. You can be happy or unhappy either way, I think people are more tolerant now and for example, don’t view having a baby out of wedlock as shameful and something to be shunned over (thankfully).

For example: being in a relationship with someone, buying a house, getting married, and then having kids

How you have the gall to argue that people are doing things in the wrong order when you could be considered to have done the same i dont know!

Oh and we're both approaching our 40's and still can not afford to buy a house. I have a large debt my family ran up in my name and DH wasn't on a large enough wage in our deprived area to save up a deposit.

Surely the traditional way is marriage, house then children. Or are you happy to ignore the fact that traditionally you shouldn't live with your partner before marriage because it doesn't suit you?