To ask what happened to having traditional values?

[mozzarellasticks]

I'm 23 and from a very young age I was told that it was 'right' to live life in a 'traditional' order.
For example: being in a relationship with someone, buying a house, getting married, and then having kids.
Not trying to be smug or on a high horse, just wondering what happened and why people are getting pregnant after knowing someone for 5 minutes. I'm generally considered to be have old fashioned views but want to know why no one else feels the same way

being in a relationship with someone, buying a house, getting married,

I wouldn't have considered buying a house with someone I wasn't married to. That doesn't strike me as traditional. For me, personally, I wouldn't have had kids with someone I wasn't married to, either, used two forms of birth control always to ensure that didn't happen (and would have terminated had it still then occurred and marriage wasn't on the cards within the next month) but a lot of people don't bother getting married. It is a bit of a chuckle when they bang on about not being able to afford to get married but have 3 kids already, or have this big ol' wedding when they've already been together for years and years and have a family to me, though.

Fortunately, I think a lot of people still believe in tradional values. Most of my friends do. Having said that, 'traditional values' only means 'how we did thing's' in whatever our culture happens to be. And they are constantly changing and evolving.

The one 'custom' we're losing, that I think is truly sad though, is the custom of not having a stable relationship before having children. Too many people i.e. women still think there is such a thing as common-law marriage. There isn't. I know marriage isn't a guarantee of a long term and happy relationship, but it does at least make a public statement about your commitment. Something sadly lacking in too many relationships today.

Buy a house before marriage?!?! Crikey, OP, you're giving the milk away for free there, aren't you?

In all seriousness though, if we all obediently stuck by 'tradition' we'd never make any progress as a society. Traditionally, women did all the housework, cooking and laundry. You can stuff that for a game of soldiers.

Well OH and I fell pregnant after 5 minutes, we’ll, three months. We were drunk off tequila and thought that ‘we’d be ok’

As it turns out, we were. We had our first son in 2013, rented a house, had our second son in 2016 whilst still renting, got engaged in 2017, bought our first home in 2018 and were getting married next month and our third baby will be born in August this year.

Traditional? Absolutely not. But we’re in love, were happy, we’re successful both in our careers and in our relationship. Our children are happy, content, loved and thriving.

I know some people who have not lived together before marriage or children

I know some people that have lived together before marriage & children

Some possible contributing factors;

More women in the work place after WW1, WW2
More reliable contraception
More womens rights, like equal pay, benefits, women now able to have pension, bank account, mortgage on their own etc
NHS

In some countries in the world, it is still the norm for marriage before living together

Some people have not many choices like this www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/11/canada-and-australia-in-talks-with-un-to-accept-saudi-asylum-seeker-rahaf-mohammed-al-qunun

Ok OP. I have 2 kids, one of which is my dps. I didn't plan my first and I won't go into details on what happened but doubt I could have prevented it.
I own my own house (dp isn't on any paper work and that is the way it will stay) I pay every single bill out of my account, my dp brings all his wages into the house for savings and to live off of (food shopping etc). My dp had a bit of a gambling problem, which I didn't know about until after we had our first child. (We were together a year and a half before I got pregnant). It's better now but I can't trust that it won't go downhill again. I couldn't care less about getting married, never have. Could you Explain to me, in my situation why it would be of any benifit to get married?

Your idea of the right way to live for a 23 year old sounds incredibly suffocating to me. Where is your life, your ideas, your spark? You are only 23 but you sound middle aged and quite dull.

I'm 34 and actually the majority of my hundreds of Facebook friends of the same age have gotten married before having children. There was a wave of weddings around age 30, and now all the babies are starting to appear.

Actually I'm a bit surprised at how hardly anyone had a baby in their 20s, or out of wedlock.

Ha, I did the oh so traditional route first time around - bought a house at 25 with ex, dog at 26, marriage at 30, baby at 31, great career earning decent money. Then it turned out exH had been having a 2+year affair, the company I worked for was in crisis and I had a 6 month old baby. My "perfect" life turned to dust around me! So, now I feel that the most important thing is being with the right person and having the attitude that you'll make the best decisions for you at the time but go with what life brings while making sure your DC have the best and most stable life you can provide (and try not to judge others on things that don't affect you).

A lot of ‘traditional values’ are predicated on keeping a woman subjugated to a man and over the years, more and more women are realising and going ‘fuck that’.

If shit hits the fan in my relationship I will have no divorce fees to pay, I won't have to sell my house, my life won't change apart from money becoming a bit tighter.

Once you grow up a bit, you will realise the world isn't black and white. I'm sire your pretty happy loving in your bubble just now though. Doubt you will be coming back anyway.

- I know so many women who have five, six or even seven babies

Honestly? I've never met anyone who has even five children (who is still alive today) let alone six or seven? Are you a time traveller?

Sire=sure
Loving=living

A lot of ‘traditional values’ are predicated on keeping a woman subjugated to a man and over the years, more and more women are realising and going ‘fuck that’.

I don't agree in the case of the values the OP is stating - getting married before buying houses/having kids protects the lower earner/person who will take time out from working - which is more often the woman.

I am going to add in better educational opportunities for females

In some countries, females are married at puberty (very young) and taken out of education

Right order - also sometimes depends on your culture and religion

Surely, the right order depends on your own beliefs

As many others have said, the 'traditional' way gave many women a really bloody awful lot in life. I'll do whatever I like, thanks, in whatever order, because I was taught to live my life the way I want and however makes me happy, not the way some insufferable upstart bore thinks I should.

Must be nice to be sure of what is "right" at such a young age...

It is perfectly possible to buy a house at 23. I don't think it's a very good idea though. Why not live a bit first? Do the house/mill stone thing later.

I think tradition for the sake of tradition is bullshit and there's not necessarily a "right" way to do things in every situation.

However I also believe that you should live with someone and take your time before any big life event/commitment: kids; marriage; mortgage. Just about being sensible, not anything to do with tradition.

Although I will add I would plan to marry before having kids, in an ideal world, just because child rearing is just another area where women get stuffed and marriage at least offers us some rights.

But OP, "traditionally" your first home after leaving your parents house was your marital home, buying your own home at 23 without a husband?? you're destined to be an old spinster now

I got married before buying a house or having kids, because that was important to me. So I suppose you could say I have traditional values.

But unlike the OP, I just see that as my choice/preference, not a superior way of doing things. Just like I chose a particular career because it suited me, but don't think everyone should do it!

And for the record:
Pregnant
House
Marriage
Divorce
New partner
Living together
Baby
Second wedding
Another baby

🤷🏼‍♀️

@formerbabe that is a very rude judgement.

My partner and I bought our house at ages 22 and 26 respectively. We both worked through uni, saved our student loans and lived fugally while renting for 2 years.

We certainly do NOT live in a shit area (although it is outside the SE) it is a historical city with an excellent university and reputation.

We did not have any inheritance or family money given to us.

I understand we are in the minority and we did have pretty boring lives while we saved but it is possible and to rule it out as having "gifted money" or a shit house is just rude!

I have been with my partner 8 years & we have just had a baby. None of my married friends had been together as long as us before they had kids...don't see why it makes a difference tbh

I’m with you on this one OP. I was born into a chaotic household, can’t even describe it as blended as that makes it sound like everyone was responsible and knew what they were doing. It was a very stressful, unstable way to grow up. I absolutely vowed I would not put a kid of my own through that and so did it the conventional way round. DH from a similar background. It has been so important to us to have stability and give stability to our kid.
Just have a look at the relationship threads on here to see what happens when people - women, basically - have kids without getting married, aren’t financially independent and have next to no stake in their own homes. To home/marriage first I would add that even more importantly women owe it to ourselves to be as financially independent as possible before and while raising our families.