MIL - ladies first rule...

[Summertimeandlivingiseasy]

AIBU to feel that is not necessary lesson for a 6 year old. Staying at MIL for 2 week holiday. She encourages kids to eat healthily and behave on promise of a sweet treat. (Which I don't mind) my 6 year old gets all excited when she gets the sweet box out but then MIL insists his 8 year old sister can choose first as it's polite to let 'ladies to go first'. He then gets upset as his big sister always gets things before him. We've always taught them guests first and have occassionaly mentioned ladies first. Is it something everyone teaches their sons from a young age? Is it fair with siblings?

Start boys off young and teach them how to treat ladies

Start children off young and teach them how to treat each other.

You do that by instilling manners, courtesy, awareness of those around them, kindness, patience. There's no need to use "ladies first" to teach manners.

If you spend time in countries with no tradition of “ladies first” it’s noticeable and it certainly doesn’t equate to women being seen as more equal. For instance, in Japan, it’s quite common for men to push ahead in queues or think they should go through the door first. Removing chivalry will not remove misogyny or make for a more equal society, it will only make for a more unpleasant society.

For instance, in Japan, it’s quite common for men to push ahead in queues or think they should go through the door first.

Nobody should be pushing ahead in queues. That’s common courtesy.

Why shouldn’t a man go through a door before a woman? Shouldn’t the person who arrives at the door first be able to go through it?

Chivalry is entirely optional and practised occasionally in certain situations.

That’s the whole point of this thread though. Chivalry isn’t optional here. It’s being taught as the right thing to do.

If it isn’t a sexist concept, why isn’t there an equivalent word for women acting chivalrously towards men?

I think they are old enough to understand at Granny's house this is her rule, in our house we have a different rules and that's fine we respect people are different and have different opinions

Purple - but can’t you see how, in general life, it’s too simplistic and naive to say everyone is equal and that’s all there is to it. This mantra of “just respect everyone” isn’t enough. Human nature isn’t like that.

You see it in schools or anywhere where there groups of boys and girls. Boys, as a rule, taking up more space, pushing their way forwards, etc. Of course there are exceptions to every rule, but this is observable in general.

What would you say to a woman who felt nervous walking home alone at night. “No don’t ask your DH to walk with you. Why should you need special treatment - get over it - were all “equal” - all we need is common respect, that’ll be do it.” Or a woman gets punched by a man - is that the same as a man being punched? Can you not see any circumstances where women do need a different type of consideration?

You see it in schools or anywhere where there groups of boys and girls. Boys, as a rule, taking up more space, pushing their way forwards, etc. Of course there are exceptions to every rule, but this is observable in general.

I’m a primary school teacher. You don’t counter this by teaching the boys that girls go first. You teach everybody to be considerate. Girls don’t need extra special consideration simply because they’re girls. It’s limiting to them to suggest that they do.

What would you say to a woman who felt nervous walking home alone at night. “No don’t ask your DH to walk with you. Why should you need special treatment - get over it - were all “equal” - all we need is common respect, that’ll be do it.”

This is such a daft argument. Anyone asking for company walking home should be given it. It doesn’t matter whether they’re male or female. What I’d object to is the assumption that I’d need or want walking home because I’m a woman.

“What I’d object to is the assumption that I’d need or want walking home because I’m a woman.”

So you can honestly say you've never felt scared walking around as a lone woman or even a group of women at night?

What about if an intruder entered your house st 3am and your DH told you to go and deal with it? I assume you’d be absolutely fine with that too?

So you can honestly say you've never felt scared walking around as a lone woman or even a group of women at night?

You’re missing the point and you’re assuming I’d feel a certain way because I’m a woman.

Why would dh tell me to deal with an intruder alone? We’d do it together.

Ok Purple I think we might have to agree to disagree on this tbh.

I open doors for people, I take something if there are two, but if only one and I like both, I say so and ask the other person if they like one better
I just realised, I always offer the baby of the family first choice, as don't see them very often.
Maybe if you are there just say when MIL goes ladies first. No DD let DS have first choice so it is fair..

No, favourites, that’s socialising boys to think of girls as smaller and weaker.

I think that Favourites may be fishing for a reaction.

Well they are though, Purple. Maybe not as children, but why try and pretend otherwise as adults?

@WelcomeToShootingStars
This site pickles my head sometimes it really does. I like a gentleman. I'm fiercely independent, there's nothing I can't at least attempt for myself. I more than hold my own professionally in a male industry. But I see chivalry as something which is sadly lacking in our society

Same here, agree.

Very out dated but no harm in learning a bit of patience and a sense of chivalry.

It makes a mockery of the outdated sentiment. It's perfect satire. I will use it as a joke in future. It's hilarious!

but why try and pretend otherwise as adults?

Do adult males and females have physiological differences? Sure.

I’m yet to see a situation where a big strong man is required to open a door or pull out the chair (or indeed allow first choice of a sweet...) because the female is weaker. (With the caveat that I’m discussing people with no additional needs)

Very out dated but no harm in learning a bit of patience and a sense of chivalry.

Only boys need to learn patience?

Favourites absolutely there are physiological differences between man and woman.

But that’s not really relevant to the outdated concept of “Ladies first”

Would I like to play rugby against a man? No - the physiological differences are absolutely relevant.

Do I require a door holding, or my chair pulling out or being ushered to go first because I’m the “weaker sex”? Absolutely not. I’d rather work on the basis we are all courteous to those around us.

@theFavourites

I actually don't disagree with what you say, sorry, I just genuinely thought you were looking for a reaction (based on your wording).

Men and women are different in so many ways and it's a disservice to both sexes (and just plain madness) to pretend otherwise.

Jacques - but manners and being a gentleman don’t have to be 100% necessary or functional. Manners are gestures that express a certain kind of integrity. For instance, nobody actually needs anyone to stand if they enter a room or approach a group of people, yet people still do it. Nobody actually will keel over if people stop saying please and thank you, yet we all still do it.

Jacques - but manners and being a gentleman don’t have to be 100% necessary or functional. Manners are gestures that express a certain kind of integrity. For instance, nobody actually needs anyone to stand if they enter a room or approach a group of people, yet people still do it. Nobody actually will keel over if people stop saying please and thank you, yet we all still do it*

That’s the point. EVERYONE should have manners. Don’t ascribe those qualities to “gentlemanly conduct”.

Let’s move away from outdated notions and teach all our kids to be decent people.