DS and DD Wage Difference Surprise

[Thatstuffedbear]

DD, 29, is a nurse, went to uni, did placements of 12 hour shifts in various hospitals as a student, all for zero pay. Fast forward and she is now a band 6 nurse on a busy nhs ward doing 13 hour day and 12 hour night shifts, often gets verbally abused by patients but loves her job.
She gets free uniform but has to pay to park. Her salary is now 28k after 7 years.

DS, 21 decided uni wasn't for him and was lucky enough to be offered an apprenticeship straight from school. Got paid from day one and will be a qualified gas engineer in the summer. He has a permanent job lined up, he has free uniform including shoes, a phone, all paid for, a van, and an allowance to buy tools. His starting salary at age 21 will be 36k.
He works 8 hour days and admits a lot of time is spent in the van drinking tea waiting for the next job.
I love both my DC equally and am so glad they are in jobs they love but AIBU to think a nurse should surely earn more than a gas engineer?

Perhaps we have experiences of differwnt hospitals Also. If a dr invites me to use their first name of course they may use mine. If they expect me to address them with a title then of course they may not use my first name.

We are all different. My father and indeed my husband would find being addressed as "Sir" perfectly acceptable and normal especially if the Dr were younger than them.

Just wow.

I can't believe how many people still don't understand that traditional 'caring/service' type roles are coded as feminine and consistently underpaid across the board.

I can't believe how many people still don't understand that traditional 'caring/service' type roles are coded as feminine and consistently underpaid across the board.

You can't underpay someone who's in scarce supply.

OhtheRoses are you going to continue to derail this thread with your frankly batshit tangent?

You seem to wedge this gripe into every thread whether it's relevant or not!

I've recently had the gas engineer over a couple of times (luckily I rent so I don't foot the bill) and he charges minimum £200 a pop and hasn't fixed it properly.

Imagine going to the hairdressers, you ask for purple hair and you come out with green hair. The hairdresser would have to fix it for the price you paid for the purple hair. Now the gas engineer came over, and didn't fix the issue and then charged again to come over the following week to try something else.

He was over again last week to fix a different issue of the boiler 'apparently this happens all the time with these boilers as you need to pump it up with a bike pump to make sure it's full of air'. My landlord turned around and asked him why he didn't do the 2 minute task when he was here the month beforehand.

It's like gold dust around here to get a gas engineer - I was waiting for three days without hot water/heating because all of them (tried around 8) were all busy. One of the regulars couldn't come over as he had to walk his dog over the countryside and after then it would be after 6pm on a friday and he doesn't work Fridays.

Imagine a nurse saying 'thanks for the offer of £200 for an hour's extra work but I don't do Friday nights'.

I've recently been googling how I can become a gas engineer...

Student nurses do not do 12 hour shifts for zero pay - they are students, they are not counted as part of the numbers, are supernumerary and get to go and observe operations, sit in clinics, etc. they get taught how to clerk patietns in, fill in care plans, get feedback, do dressings etc etc

They do not get paid because they are not "working" they are learning about the job

I was a nurse - am not any more!

Student nurses of yesteryear were part of the numbers, worked hard and did not have the luxuries of observation etc that the current generation did. It is like all vocational degrees, oyu do not hear student physios, OTs, speech therapists moaning about not being paid - they are learning.

Sorry have a bee in my bonnet about this perception that nursing students are hard done by, because the bursary has gone and they have to pay for their degrees like everyone else.

It's like gold dust around here to get a gas engineer - I was waiting for three days without hot water/heating because all of them (tried around 8) were all busy. One of the regulars couldn't come over as he had to walk his dog over the countryside and after then it would be after 6pm on a friday and he doesn't work Fridays.

TBF, they're almost certainly less busy in the summer months, so you'll have the same supply and demand issues of any cyclical business.

Summer has fewer breakdowns coming in, but it's generally when most of the boiler exchanges and other bigger jobs happen.

One of the regulars couldn't come over as he had to walk his dog over the countryside and after then it would be after 6pm on a friday and he doesn't work Fridays.

Even tradespeople have commitments. Dogs still have to be walked, school runs have to be done and I wouldn't work Friday if I didn't have to either! Just because someone is self employed doesn't mean they're at the beck and call of anyone who wants them...

Student nurses do not do 12 hour shifts for zero pay - they are students, they are not counted as part of the numbers, are supernumerary and get to go and observe operations, sit in clinics, etc. they get taught how to clerk patietns in, fill in care plans, get feedback, do dressings etc etc

Surely this also applies to apprentices, they are learning, but they get paid.

Some really interesting opinions on here,

Nurses and care assistants are so undervalued pay wise.
It's a disgrace.
I couldn't do what they do for all the tea in China.

Student nurses absolutely are unpaid labour. My stepdaughter has just completed a two year full time MSc in nursing. Her major complaint was that she was often used as an extra HCA in her placements, one of which required her to work a 13 hour shift with an hour’s journey either end.

Student nurses do not do 12 hour shifts for zero pay - they are students, they are not counted as part of the numbers, are supernumerary and get to go and observe operations, sit in clinics, etc. they get taught how to clerk patietns in, fill in care plans, get feedback, do dressings etc etc

This is how it is meant to be, I suppose, but it is absolutely not what happens. Students are definitely used as extra staff. This was true on every placement I did as a student and on every job I've done since qualifying.

There will be times where they get to shadow staff for a particular activity, and I think most nurses do think hard about how to give students a good experience, but when you are running a couple of staff under every shift, there is an attitude that everyone should pitch in.

I think it is awful that student's don't get a bursary. They are not at all like most other students - they have to do fulltime work, working as hard as the employed members of staff, contributing to the team, following whatever shift pattern is used in that area.

Because students don't get a bursary, what I see now is students doing 3x 12 hour shifts for their placement and 3x employed shifts for money each week. It is too much and makes people I'll.

Student nurses do not do 12 hour shifts for zero pay - they are students, they are not counted as part of the numbers, are supernumerary and get to go and observe operations, sit in clinics, etc. they get taught how to clerk patietns in, fill in care plans, get feedback, do dressings etc etc

I was a student midwife not that long ago, this definitely is not the case. I was often left alone with women and babies, expected to pitch in with everything from bed cleaning/making to performing observations, as well as caring for the families my mentor did. Towards the end of 2nd year and all of 3rd year I often had my own allocation of workload, overseen by a midwife but left for me to manage and flag to her if any concerns. I absolutely pitched in and worked to support the running of the unit.

Lets all say what the real reason for your daughters sadly low wage - we have had 7 years of public sector pay freeze and a terrible NHS pay deal that has meant some people are actually worse off. Some research indicates some people should be on £2-4000 more per year than they are because of a lack of pay rises with inflation and increases in costs of living. Stop voting Tory!

Must agree with what people are saying, Nurses do get paid alot less than they should.

Your DS was smart in his career choice gas engineers get paid alot and with alot of perks. Largely because companies employing them are so big.

It's not so much a gender issue more so that one has chosen a high paying career path and the other is on an average, least they are both happy i guess.

Must agree with what people are saying, Nurses do get paid alot less than they should.

Your DS was smart in his career choice gas engineers get paid alot and with alot of perks. Largely because companies employing them are so big.

It's not so much a gender issue more so that one has chosen a high paying career path and the other is on an average, least they are both happy i guess.

Laws of supply and demand. Few people want to go into trades so there is a shortage of them and prices rise. If all the nurses resigned tomorrow and retrained as gas engineers you can sure the cost of s gas engineer would drop. Unfortunately 1in 10 nhs posts is unfilled which tells you about the fact there is a shortage of nurses already.

Nurses' pay is shocking, I agree. A dear friend of mine is a nurse and someone I really admire for how she manages her life. She's a lone parent, an amazing mum and amazing at budgeting and managing her meagre salary. I have a creative job and I'm almost ashamed how much more I earn at my current rate doing a job that is skilled in its way and entertains, but is ultimately of much less value to society than hers.
She's like your DD though, OP, loves her job and wouldn't want to do anything else. When I think of a truly good person, through and through, that's her.

My dad is a plumbing and heating engineer, self employed so has to have his own van, own phone etc and I don't think he earns as much as your son so I'd say he's doing fine.
Care work, nursing and all those types of jobs don't tend to pay that much, I work in a care home and we've just signed a form to get a pay rise, and I'm on minimum wage

This is why at almost 30, pre children, I won’t be expecting my children to attend university (I was pushed towards by my parents) and also would encourage starting low and working you’re way up.

I have a degree, in law, etc. But I chose to become a nanny and maternity nurse prior. I adore my job, earn double what my mother did as a teacher- I get a work car, free food, lots of paid holiday, overtime and the best thing is I adore my job- plenty of fun playtime, park trip, museums.

I agree the nhs is badly underpaid and I feel for the fact she has to pay for parking, etc.

However try not to feel sorry for her, or any annoyance towards DS. Both of them could be equally happy in life. Her job could be very rewarding and she’s helping others daily.

It's the difference between state funded and private enterprise. Gas engineers generally work alone so that attracts a premium in such a safety bound role.

TBH NHS nurses are disgustingly low paid. My husband is newly qualified and working in a private hospital that treats mainly NHS patients and he's on the same pay as your daughter!

stuffedpeppers I'm a therapist in the NHS and there is absolutly no comparison between nurse training and Physio/OT/SALT training. Therapy students are not expected to work shifts nor are they expected to work through the summer holidays. They have the full university holidays. It is appalling that nursing students are expected to work as they do and be expected to pay for the privilege.

A lot of people on here are really trying hard to minimise the gender aspect, which is interesting.

If it's just 'supply and demand', why are teachers' salaries so uncompetitive when there is such a shortage? I have done a comparison of salaries in teaching between the 1930s and now (when female teachers were openly paid less) and it was evident the pay has fallen over time relative to other professions.

I have only once seen careers advice explaining the whole package of different jobs - it was in a guide for schools commissioned by Barclay's Bank I think. Parents and teachers would really be doing a students a favour to get them to think about progression over time, working conditions etc. It's fine to suggest some jobs are more enjoyable than others, but being able to live comfortably throughout your life is also important.

I think you're right to muse on this , OP.