DS and DD Wage Difference Surprise

[Thatstuffedbear]

DD, 29, is a nurse, went to uni, did placements of 12 hour shifts in various hospitals as a student, all for zero pay. Fast forward and she is now a band 6 nurse on a busy nhs ward doing 13 hour day and 12 hour night shifts, often gets verbally abused by patients but loves her job.
She gets free uniform but has to pay to park. Her salary is now 28k after 7 years.

DS, 21 decided uni wasn't for him and was lucky enough to be offered an apprenticeship straight from school. Got paid from day one and will be a qualified gas engineer in the summer. He has a permanent job lined up, he has free uniform including shoes, a phone, all paid for, a van, and an allowance to buy tools. His starting salary at age 21 will be 36k.
He works 8 hour days and admits a lot of time is spent in the van drinking tea waiting for the next job.
I love both my DC equally and am so glad they are in jobs they love but AIBU to think a nurse should surely earn more than a gas engineer?

It's partly gendered. Jobs traditionally done by women, like nursing, are lower paid than jobs traditionally done by men. It's also to do with the fact that your daughter works for the NHS, whereas I guess your son works for a private company.

If you're surprised by this then you've been living your life under a rock, I'm afraid.

The OP is in the SE, so the extortionate cost of housing distorts the picture.

In most parts of the UK, nursing, teaching etc etc are good jobs with above average pay, pensions and career prospects.

The trick is avoid London or anywhere where its dirty money flows.

Nursing is a very portable vacation.

The OP is in the SE, so the extortionate cost of housing distorts the picture.

In most parts of the UK, nursing, teaching etc etc are good jobs with above average pay, pensions and career prospects.

The trick is avoid London or anywhere where its dirty money flows.

Nursing is a very portable vocation.

@Thatstuffedbear its not gender. It’s different roles.

Uni doesn’t always pay. NHS certainly doesn’t.

@JaniceBattersby lack of money can make you very unhappy!

I once earned £18k over 3 jobs (one full time)

Now earn 6 figures. Money makes life so much easier but you’re right not necessarily happy.

£36,000 is pretty high for any starting salary isn't it? But unless he sets up on his own the op's son doesn't have a career path he will be earning 26k plus inflation at 30, 40, 50 years old and will be vulnerable in any downturn in the construction industry or recession to being laid off.

The op's daughter has a lower starting salary but mjch more scope for career progression. If she is good at her job and pursues promotion her eaenings could significantly outstrip her brother's across their lifetimes.

Well,that's the good old NHS for ya. I've worked in mental health for the last 28 years & I was earning more 10 years ago than I am now! But I still wouldn't leave it, I couldn't. I'm still loyal to it & I still don't mind my job.

Different jobs pay different rates, hardly a shock is it? Your daughter should emigrate to Australia, nurses get great pay here (or so my nurse friends tell me). I'm good friends with a theatre nurse, she is single and owns three houses so must be doing ok! Mind you your son would still be paid more here. My husband has an engineer friend who learned on the job (no degree), he 's getting over $200k! He does work in the mines on a fly in fly out basis though, which is hard work. My son is aiming to get into an engineering degree next year, I'm hoping it will stand him in better stead than my BA!

Didn't your daughter know what she was going to be paid before she undertook her nurses's training?

Just googled my local trust's jobs:

Band 5 - up to £34k x 3
Band 6 - up to £41k x 4
Band 7 - up to £47k x 3

All quote a 37.5 hour week and are subject to overtime and unsociable shift allowances, A/L, sick pay, pension scheme, courtesy buses and assistance with childcare.

That doesn't seem a bad wicket to me. Especially when that is often worked as three shifts on a condensed basis.

Having said that it's a horrid hospital with poor standards, requires improvement and I've yet to see a nurse there who Graphista's wonderful exemplar wouldn't have blasted out for being sloppy.

I'll be at work at 8; and leave at 8. Monday to Friday as a senior mgr. My staff do 8.30-6/6 30 regularly - middle managers, equivalent to between band 6 and 7. Usually first degree, masters and prof quals.

Grade 6 nurse via BTecs and Access courses doesn't seem bad to me although having met a few, they aren't particularly high quality and something impirtant has been lost. If their mothers didn't tell them to stand up straight and remove the gum you would think Matron would. And yet they wonder why they aren't respected as they were.

Via btechs and access courses?

I have A-Levels and a degree. I did the dipHE as that was the option with a bursary and no fees when I trained but have since topped up to a degree as I want to do a masters at some point.

I also know several nurses who have a psychology degree and then have done a masters in nursing. We have quite a lot of masters students at my work place too, these are students with a degree usually in psychology or counselling.

My Mum had a much older nursing diploma and has also topped up to a degree by doing various modules, is a nurse prescriber and has a masters in her speciality.

Private/nhs pay

I'm a band six in private sector (mental health) private pays more as a basic wage however doesn't give extra for unsocial hours etc so I earn the same amount a month as my friend (male) who's a band six in the nhs as he does half nights and half days over the month.

Nurses don't do bloods

Oh and I do bloods and have done for years, not that I do them frequently as the hca's in my setting and many others do them. Its a skill and pay increase for them. It's certainly never a doctor doing them.

And @Graphista very well said.

But not all meet that criteria nowadays do they. Certainly not all appear to have that level of professional education. And where during those quals do they learn about professionalism: gum chewing and affording people the courtesy of their names rather than "love". They don't call the drs "love" or even "John" so why not afford the patients the same level of respect.

It is ridiculous and those who think it is nothing to do with gender are wrong. Whilst it is true that OP's DD could become a gas engineer and earn a similar amount if nearly every other engineer is a man, as soon as more women move into the role, salaries will drop. These has been demonstrated in many professions. If you want to earn more move into a male dominated field and hope that other women don't have the same idea!

Whilst it is true that OP's DD could become a gas engineer and earn a similar amount if nearly every other engineer is a man, as soon as more women move into the role, salaries will drop. These has been demonstrated in many professions. If you want to earn more move into a male dominated field and hope that other women don't have the same idea!

Is there any evidence to suggest this is anything but a byproduct of supply and demand?

Where an industry previously dominated by one gender is co-opted by the other, isn't it the case that there are more qualified applicants for one opening?

It’s not a gender thing - it’s a totally different job thing.

Actually I think they do call the doctors John - if indeed that’s their name. I worked in the NHS for a very long time and everyone calls everyone else by their first name up to and including the chief executive and chairman.

It’s not a gender thing - it’s a totally different job thing.

This. You just can't compare them, they're in completely different sectors. Gas engineers are worth every penny.

as soon as more women move into the role, salaries will drop. These has been demonstrated in many professions.

Do you have any evidence for this? Genuinely interested!

Do you have any evidence for this? Genuinely interested!

It is pretty well documented and the reason I know about it is because it has happened in my profession (when I joined it was male dominated whereas now there are more women and salaries are decreasing).

I haven't got time to look for all the studies but a quick google search found this:

www.nytimes.com/2016/03/20/upshot/as-women-take-over-a-male-dominated-field-the-pay-drops.html

Public sector employees get much better benefits eg maternity / paternity pay, compassionate leave, flexible working even holiday entitlement so maybe it evens itself out in the end.

Public sector employees get much better benefits eg maternity / paternity pay, compassionate leave, flexible working even holiday entitlement so maybe it evens itself out in the end.

Not in my experience Alsohuman. The nurses at my local hospitals always call the doctors Dr, Mr, Ms, etc and counless times I've entered a room: "come in OhThe, I'm Dr Smith. The nurses use a title for them but not for the patients. It's not on.

It would be interesting to see what happens when a men move into a women's field, ie does this lead to wage depression or inflation. The only study I've ever seen is that the superstars of 'women's' fields e.g. hairdressing or chefs tend to be men but I saw this years ago and I'm not sure it still holds true.

It seems my experience is different @OhTheRoses, but what do I know after 30 years in the NHS? My dad was asked what he wanted to be called, young doctors frequently addressed him as “Sir” which made him laugh and say “It’s George”. The doctor who did his hip surgery introduced himself as Taj.

I went to uni got a good degree, now in a fairly senior specialist public sector role as part of a national team, making high level decisions about risk and public protection. DB didn't go to uni and is a plumber, albeit one with some specialisms who works on site rather than domestic work. Guess who earns more...