DS and DD Wage Difference Surprise

[Thatstuffedbear]

DD, 29, is a nurse, went to uni, did placements of 12 hour shifts in various hospitals as a student, all for zero pay. Fast forward and she is now a band 6 nurse on a busy nhs ward doing 13 hour day and 12 hour night shifts, often gets verbally abused by patients but loves her job.
She gets free uniform but has to pay to park. Her salary is now 28k after 7 years.

DS, 21 decided uni wasn't for him and was lucky enough to be offered an apprenticeship straight from school. Got paid from day one and will be a qualified gas engineer in the summer. He has a permanent job lined up, he has free uniform including shoes, a phone, all paid for, a van, and an allowance to buy tools. His starting salary at age 21 will be 36k.
He works 8 hour days and admits a lot of time is spent in the van drinking tea waiting for the next job.
I love both my DC equally and am so glad they are in jobs they love but AIBU to think a nurse should surely earn more than a gas engineer?

YY, @arethereanyleftatall, definitely agree we need to be more clear about these things with our children.

I know people are saying salaries are easy to find out, and surely the OP's DD checked them before studying, and so on, but that seems a bit wishful/naive to me. Sure, we could all check these things, but when you are 18, do you really have a meaningful sense of how far 28k does or doesn't get you? I certainly didn't.

But 28K is still a high wage for a lot of people (outside of MN of course).
I know people who’ve never earned that, ever (in their 40s).

You don't appear to have given any consideration for the unsocial hours uplift your daughter must get? I'm band 6 NHS and my 28k salary is more towards 35k with unsocial hours.

Your daughters pay will rise to about £35,000 though and pay rises in the NHS for the most part are automatic. She also gets pretty decent holidays (when I worked for the nhs I got 33 days plus bank holidays). Sick pay is good - 6 months full and 6 months half after 5 years and of course her pension is likely to be lots better than her brothers. It's not all about pay.

That said I do think compared to some private sector jobs, public sector jobs are under paid. A lot of that is to do with low or no pay rises in the last 10 years. The government have made the lowest paid increase significantly over the past few years which has meant the lowest unskilled jobs are now not paid too much less than slightly skilled jobs.

For example I work in local government, come April due to changes in the NJC pay scales our cleaners will now be paid just one spine point lower than our level two administrators ie receptionist and finance assistants. We need to start giving decent pay rises to all public sector workers and not just the bottom level (this year some have gotten 7% when others have only gotten 2%)

But 28K is still a high wage for a lot of people (outside of MN of course).
I know people who’ve never earned that, ever (in their 40s).

Are they in professional occupations with a degree though?

I earn a very very good rate per hour. It's taken a long time to get to that point. My clients are welcome to go somewhere cheaper. I normally have a waiting list.

I agree that careers in the caring profession are massively underpaid.

Nurses are really paid a pittance for the work they do. Unsociable hours, high pressure and responsibility should all equal a good salary.

I'm a band 5 on 28k, at the top of my band. Your daughter can only be on the 2nd or 3rd level and will get more money each year until she reaches the top of her band. It may only be about level with what your son will start earning at but she can progress further if she wants.

www.rcn.org.uk/employment-and-pay/nhs-pay-scales-2017-18

Thatstuffedbear

What sort of pension, holiday and sick pay does your DS have

It's not gendered. My dd is an office manager. She's 21 and the place she is now she started at £28k plus fantastic perks.
Like ops son she didn't go uni she went through an apprenticeship.

Other dd worked her way up in the company, now manager starting pay of 35k. Again no uni.

Teachers and nurses are ridiculously underpaid for the hours and work they put in. More males are getting into nursing. Last couple of times I have been in, there has been a very good balance of male/female nurses.

I agree with squirrel

I work in a traditionally male sector, and this actually makes me more in demand as some clients prefer a woman and there are few of us doing what I do. It means that my day rate for private work is a lot higher than my male equivalents.

Despite the fact that either sex can be a nurse or a plumber, they are traditionally female/male roles and that is a major part of the pay differential

People who think gender has nothing to do with it are kidding themselves. Honestly, how many female gas engineers or plumbers do you know? Yes, women can go into those professions, in theory. But it's well known that for a long time girls have not been encouraged to develop an interest in certain subjects (maths, tech, physics, IT etc) and are steered (often unconsciously) towards interests that are more traditionally seen as feminine. Do you think that a girl who applied for an apprenticeship as a plumber would really be given the same consideration as a boy? It works the other way too, Men who want to work with young children are often viewed with suspicion. I've worked with male nurses who get sick of people assuming they must be gay because it's seen as a "woman's job". It's no coincidence that while the vast majority of NHS nurses are women, the majority of Nurse Managers are men.

We still have a very long way to go.

Someone I know is a (very top end) tiler. Most of his income comes from property development these days, but he still does the occasional job "on the tools".

The last job he did was a bathroom floor in Mayfair, in some kind of marble. His labour charges were £2,000. The job took 6 hours.

Imo, any young person with practical skills and the ability to get through an apprenticeship would be well advised to consider a trade rather than a "profession".

No-one will ever write software that will unblock your bog or replace your roof.

Nurses’ pay is too low. This really isn’t a gender issue though. Plenty of men go into nursing, women can be gas engineers.

Nursing pay has always been too low. £36k for a newly qualified gas engineer is surprising to me. DH is a gas engineer, his dad (now retired) started the company about 40 years ago, DH trained and joined about 16 years ago now.
Plenty of customers and never short of work but also plenty of stress and no acres of land here.

Isn't is a well known fact that nurses (and other nhs employees) have a shitty pay?

To answer some questions;
I'm not saying it's a gendered thing atall, I was just thinking what a funny old world we live in when salaries are so different.
DD's boyfriend is also a nurse (B5)and earns the same. DD has only recently become a band 6.
She has always wanted to be a nurse and loves what she does. She's pleased for her bro.
It's me that was surprised when hearing what DS salary will be on in the summer. He's looked at gas engineer jobs with other companies and they all pay at least 35k.
DS gets pension and sick pay. I'm not sure how many holidays but last year he had some left in Dec so had to use them up.

Me and my brother are the same.
I have years of education and training, as a veterinary nurse I earn £21k a year.
My brother has just completed an apprenticeship and has just qualified as an electrician and on £30k a year.
I’m gonna retrain 😁😂

It's gendered in the respect that traditional 'womens jobs' are paid less than traditional 'mens jobs'. Not ignoring the, hopefully diminishing societal expectations around those roles.

That's what the job market is like. I work in a difficult job which I LOVE and a lot of people want to do - I'm on £17k (soon to be £24k). I have an Ma and am 2 years out of uni.

DP does a job he hates but there's money on it, he has a BSc and is also 2 years out of uni... he's on £38k soon to be £45k.

It's mental but at the end of the day I sacrificed financial wealth for a job enjoy.

Yeh, sure dd could have been a gas engineer so long as she enjoys working in a sexist environment. But anyway let's all keep voting NuLabour/Tory and wondering why nurses/teachers/etc keep getting fucked over.

Actually a top band 6 is about £36600 basic before anti social hours. It go’s up yearly so I assume your daughter is new to her band. Agency pays rather well if she is looking for extra

@jetadore my friend is a female plumber (24, v pretty, size 8) and says she's never been treated badly by customers or the lads in her company. Maybe a bit more gently but not sexually or meanly.

Wow. I thought nurses were poorly paid. £28 is a great wage for 7yr experience. As your son - excellent if you can get it, good luck to him. Wage depends on field a bit more than grades.
People pay more for gas than they do for NHS so gas/leccy companies have more money to pay high wages.

My daughters earn a lot more than your son, though, because they picked law not nursing.