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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

DS and DD Wage Difference Surprise

285 replies

Thatstuffedbear · 17/02/2019 11:49

DD, 29, is a nurse, went to uni, did placements of 12 hour shifts in various hospitals as a student, all for zero pay. Fast forward and she is now a band 6 nurse on a busy nhs ward doing 13 hour day and 12 hour night shifts, often gets verbally abused by patients but loves her job.
She gets free uniform but has to pay to park. Her salary is now 28k after 7 years.

DS, 21 decided uni wasn't for him and was lucky enough to be offered an apprenticeship straight from school. Got paid from day one and will be a qualified gas engineer in the summer. He has a permanent job lined up, he has free uniform including shoes, a phone, all paid for, a van, and an allowance to buy tools. His starting salary at age 21 will be 36k.
He works 8 hour days and admits a lot of time is spent in the van drinking tea waiting for the next job.
I love both my DC equally and am so glad they are in jobs they love but AIBU to think a nurse should surely earn more than a gas engineer?

OP posts:
steppemum · 17/02/2019 16:43

For those sayign it is not gendered.

I used to live in Kazkahstan, where the doctors are mostly female and have been for ages.

Guess what?
Being a doctor is considered to be a low status job, and is paid appallingly.

cdtaylornats · 17/02/2019 16:59

There is a reason gas engineers are trained, certified and re certified, it can kill. It can kill quietly by slow suffocation or it can kill in a spectacular fashion.

OhTheRoses · 17/02/2019 17:01

Interesting though:

Gas engineer comes to my home, knocks politely, inquires "is that Mrs Roses", smiles and waits to be invited in putting shoe covers on first.

Midwife/hv came to my house (long time ago now), didn't keep to time, usually abrupt, called me "mum", "sweetheart", one chewed gum, didn't wait to be invited in, certainly didn't wipe their feet, one or two were cutting and rather rude, moaned continually about being too busy.

I think MikeUniformMike pretty much nailed it. Gas engineer is providing a service and needs me to pay for it; nurses seem to think they are doing me a favour and I'm getting their services for free. Would I pay the nurses for those standards if they submitted a bill. Probably not.

DobbinsVeil · 17/02/2019 17:04

There is a reason gas engineers are trained, certified and re certified, it can kill. It can kill quietly by slow suffocation or it can kill in a spectacular fashion.

And unfortunately reporting unsafe work rarely gets anything other than a letter sent to the engineer, where they can promise not to do it again and that will be the end of the matter. Even when it's the 2nd time the same engineer has been reported for dangerous work.

PlumPorter · 17/02/2019 17:07

But 28K is still a high wage for a lot of people

Not in a professional career where one has spent 3 years at university studying for a degree and getting into debt for it on the understanding that they will be able to earn more than they would had they not gone to university.

And not when they are making life and death decisions.

It's similar for teachers who are required to ensure that the next generation receive an outstanding education, and are now required to be educated to masters level themselves (or at least, that was the plan a few years ago) but are not valued in the slightest.

clairemcnam · 17/02/2019 17:14

Although I agree, I think they are both very good wages. I am qualified, 57 and earn less than both of them.

Roomba · 17/02/2019 17:14

I used to feel like this on a teacher's salary, when my best friend worked as a salesman for British Gas. He spent all day either waiting between appointments or drinking tea and chatting to old ladies about their grandchildren. Very little actual 'sales work' involved and yet he earned 4x what I did with large bonuses. He just said I was a mug working for a teacher's pay.

I do think a lot of jobs that were traditonally mens jobs pay better than traditional women's jobs though. Many councils have had to pay compensation to women doing equivalent level work to men but in 'female' sectors due to the historic inequality.

OhTheRoses · 17/02/2019 17:15

A lot of the problem is that many of the masters quals don't really merit the definition. Almost every time I've asked a nurse a question she has said "I don't know, I'm not an expert". Or they have noted things inaccurately. One even wrote I wS going to breastfeed when I had said I hadn't made a decision and when I challenged it said "well I wrote you would because you still might" Confused. Is that something someone of masters calibre would say?

namechanged109029 · 17/02/2019 17:23

I was offered a place at a brilliant Uni to study nursing, but I decided to take a gap year from study to work and save some cash, I became a Health Care assistant, worked along side nurses and doctors every day on an elderly ward... I QUIT after 3 months and would NEVER become a nurse... even if the pay was 5 grand a month. It is NOT worth it.

CantWinLotteryIfDontBuyTicket · 17/02/2019 17:23

Nurses don’t actually do all that much. Yes I know they’re on their feet all day, etc etc etc, but in terms of responsibilities and capabilities, I think they’re paid quite handsomely for what they do. And yes, I have nurses in my family - and they tend to agree!

Corrag · 17/02/2019 17:26

Your dd is in a non profit making, caring job. Your ds isn't. Sadly, that's the difference.

This ^^. It's generally the jobs that make money for an employer that are better paid.

Jaxhog · 17/02/2019 17:31

A lot of the problem is an historical hangover. Female dominated professions used to be paid even less. But until more girls go into the traditionally male professions, this won't change fast. I've worked in IT most of my working life, and always got paid the same as the guys. But there are still so, so few women in IT, as it's still seen as as a male profession.

Nursing will never be better paid until the gender mix is more even.

PlumPorter · 17/02/2019 17:32

Nurses don’t actually do all that much

I have a friend who is an A&E nurse. I think she'd beg to differ.

corythatwas · 17/02/2019 17:43

"But 28K is still a high wage for a lot of people

Not in a professional career where one has spent 3 years at university studying for a degree and getting into debt for it on the understanding that they will be able to earn more than they would had they not gone to university."

It is only marginally lower than the starting salary of an academic lecturer, a job that requires a PhD=7 years at university + usually these days a publication record (which you don't get paid for).

But I agree that life and death decisions should be better remunerated.

LoisWilkerson1 · 17/02/2019 17:50

I don't think people realise how much trades earn. My dh has been earning a fortune bricklaying but its supply and demand. He is so busy he is booked up for the next three years. The bottom could fall out at any time but unlikely due to the housing crisis. Nurses unfortunately don't generate income, they cost money.

HappyHattie · 17/02/2019 17:54

My DH is a Doctor.

All I ever hear is ‘doctors earn so much’ and similar crap from the daily mail...etc.
But no credit at all is given to the level of candidate required. 🤔

Of my DH’s peers - same Alevels, similar universities. Studied to the same academic level but went into the private sector, DH earns about half of their salary! 🙈

Meanwhile if we emigrate to Australia/Newzealand DH will earn 2-3x as much and work a much more family friendly schedule.

So his peers trot off abroad, taking with them the thousands of pounds which the NHS has invested training them, to a better life. Whilst nothing is done in the UK and conditions/pay continue to get worse 😡

DH is currently working at a hospital a 3 hour commute away from our home, with no idea where he’ll be put next year! Despite the fact that we’re trying for a baby, own a home and I have a job here...the NHS seem to believe DH should be happy to work 13 hour shifts at a hospital 3-4 hours away from our home at their leisure 😡

Nurses are underpaid but doctors don’t have it great either. The whole NHS simply can’t compete with similar professions in the private sector.

notacooldad · 17/02/2019 18:01

Nurses don’t actually do all that much
Bore off!

OhTheRoses · 17/02/2019 18:01

Neither nurses nor Drs should have student debt. However both should have to work 3 x the period of study to be exempt from paying it back.

DH spent 7 years qualifying then 5 years earning very small beans. He was a barrister. If he was rude to a client, blew a case due to incompetence, moaned continuously about his lot, he would not be paid. When he was in chambers he never ever was so arrogant that he expected a client to call him Mr Roses whilst he called his client Dave. Height of earnings 7 figures. Ever that arrogant. Nah - wouldn't have been paid.

Alsohuman · 17/02/2019 18:05

Doctors and nurses absolutely shouldn't have student debt. Guess that's why so many of them emigrate, it gets written off.

OhTheRoses · 17/02/2019 18:13

And if they do, it needs paying off.

Original poster
Thatstuffedbear · 17/02/2019 18:13

I definately don't agree that nurses don't do much!! I've had members of my family in hospital and the nurses have been amazing. We would certainly be buggered without them!!
And I agree, Drs don't earn enough!

OP posts:
Alsohuman · 17/02/2019 18:18

Junior doctors definitely don't earn enough. Consultants and GPS, however, are on six figures and many consultants do private work as well.

jelliebelly · 17/02/2019 18:21

£36k for a newly qualified gas engineer?? No wonder local councils haven't got enough money for children's services etc etc!!

OhTheRoses · 17/02/2019 18:23

The nurse practitioners at our local minor injuries unit are awesome.

The nurses I've come across in hospitals, outpatients, triage in A&E etc, on wards, not so.

bringincrazyback · 17/02/2019 18:28

I wont be pushing my kids in to uni or nhs field jobs. They'll be pushed into trades because that's where the money and comfortable life is at.

I get that you want the best for your kids, but it's kind of up to them to choose what jobs they go into, you know.