To object to this form of address in the 21st century?

[clary]

We got a letter from school addressed to Mr and Mrs J Johnson. *

My name is not Jacinda nor Jennifer. My initial is in fact not J. My husband's name however is Jeremy.

Have I, having done something so bourgeois as get married, now lost the right to my first initial?

Our bank manages Mr J Johnson and Mrs C Johnson. Or I would also be fine with a simple Mr and Mrs Johnson. We are the only Mr and Mrs Johnson at this address.

I'm not going to complain to the school. But am I reasonable to be slightly seething?

*All names changed.

Yes it's obvious you don't get it glittersticks. But most people in human history who've been married haven't followed this custom, it's pretty recent and it is clearly possible to be married without it. This is what makes your argument so ridiculous.

I mean really, if you just want the same name you can do that for free! No point shelling out even on a bare bones registry office.

I don't "get" the mindset behind wanting to get married but want to stay separate. Especially if anyone has kids. You all become one family unit with the same name.

Why rarely —almost never— the woman’s name? Does owning a penis make all that name changing admin too tricky to manage? Or is it that the ego is so fragile when attached to a cock and balls that the risk of sterility too great? Or maybe it’s centuries of sexism against women by a patriarchal society that sees women give up their identities on receipt of a wedding ring.

it is clearly possible to be married without it

18 years and counting.

You hear comments like that and you wonder, does the person even know about all the cultures in the world where it isnt done?!

@GlitterStick
Name change to me is part of marriage.
I don't "get" the mindset behind wanting to get married but want to stay separate. Especially if anyone has kids. You all become one family unit with the same name
I actually agree that it's nice to have a family "name" that all members share, but I absolutely do not think this should always be the man's name. I think double-barrelling, merging names or coming up with a completely new name are great alternatives.

Ironically I did take my DH's name as my surname was a source of embarrassment throughout my life and I love the sound of his name. I do agree with PP who argue that it's strange how women always have the ugly surnames that they're willing to surrender whilst men cling to their's no matter what, but I'm not going to live with a horrible surname and enforce it on my kids just to prove I'm a feminist.

Yes it's obvious you don't get it glittersticks. But most people in human history who've been married haven't followed this custom, it's pretty recent and it is clearly possible to be married without it. This is what makes your argument so ridiculous

Citing an old MN saying now, but is there any need to be so rude?
All I was saying is it is tradition if you get married to take your husband's name.
If you refuse to, (to me) it's like why get married in the first place if you don't agree with the traditions/ idealogy behind it?

Jeez get a grip. If you are that easily offended you probably shouldn't have taken his last name either.

It harks back to a time when women were owned by their husbands. It's one thing to choose to take their husbands surname. Quite another to be referred to as a piece of his property.

For those that think this is a non issue and not something to get worked up about I respect that but please respect that for some of us it's a not so subtle sign that women are seen as subservient to men. Names are important. They have power as they are part of what defines us.

All I was saying is it is tradition if you get married to take your husband's name.

Where do you stand on marital rape?

That's not being rude glittersticks. It's pointing out that your argument is ludicrous. Which is quite a kind assessment really, considering that you've basically said you don't see why billions of people got married. There are much harsher ways to describe that.

Seriously, do some research. Women changing their names on marriage is quite recent, and only done in a few cultures. That's all. Just a quasi popular human custom attached to what is actually a contract.

And I presume you don't think your husband should be able to rape you without being prosecuted for it, but it was tradition until pretty recently in the UK that a husband couldn't be prosecuted for raping his wife. So why get married if you don't believe in that tradition?

Name changing isn't and innate part of marriage. Marriage predates surnames. It's just a thing some people have done when getting married, in some societies, fairly recently.

I understand that the change to a married name only became common in Scotland during the 19th century. Previously, women retained their own family name; even in the aristocracy where women were Forename Hername, Lady Histitle. You still see Forename Hername or Hisname in legal documents and proceedings, the same as any other alias. It's also common to see in death notices and on tombstones Forename Hername, wife of Forename Hisname; my mother has her own name on her headstone. People can often be known by their own name generally even if they've changed it to the husband's - and the husband colloquially known as Forename Hername's man!

I usually use Ms if I have to choose, but I don't fret if I get called Mrs Myname. Up here it tends to happen after a certain age even if the person knows you're single, and is more likely a mark of respect, linked to to old use of Mistress Hername, regardless of marital status, as a PhD I know said when addressed as Mrs.

Indeed toomanypaws. So what I want to know is, if tradition is so fabulous, why that only applies to 19th and 20th century customs from certain parts of Europe? What if I prefer an older tradition? Older is more traditional, surely!

Where do you stand on marital rape?

Oh FFS. That hasn't been legal since about 80s.
As is obviously not OK.
Changing your name though? No.

I haven’t RTFT, so apologies if this has already been addressed - but why did you change your last name to your husband’s when you got married? You could have kept your own surname and he kept his. Had you not changed your surname then I’d sympathise, but by changing it to your husband’s you are willingly subscribing to the patriarchy - so YABU I’m afraid.

What I don't get is the fear of first names. (Ok fear is hyperbolic). It just odd to me, why not either:

Inital Surname & Inital Surname
Inital & Inital Surname

Why the need for Mrs, Ms, Mr or Miss. Especially when addressing envelopes to friends!

Even read on here people being insulted at being called their first name!!! What's that about?? (Possibly the Quaker influence on my life - but I just don't get it.)

Name change to me is part of marriage.

Sharing a toothbrush might be part of marriage for you, does not mean other people who prefer not to do it should not even bother to get married.
And in any case, OP does not object to the last name. Just to the fact that her name is not Jeremy.

It’s interesting to read this thread and see the varying views on what marriage actually is. In fact it’s an unambiguous definition. It’s a commitment to be with one partner for life. It affords each partner the important status of ‘next of kin’, along with certain forms of legal protection. To me, it also means that within your family unit, those who take priority are each other.

I’m no less a loving wife because I happen to have exercised the preference of my right to my own name. We are just as married, and I have no wish to hide the fact that I’m married. I wear my wedding ring with pride, as does he. Marriage is a big thing, and it’s enough. I’m under absolutely no obligation - legal, moral or cultural - to relinquish my own identity into the bargain.

This pisses me off too. Yanbu

Seems an odd argument to say it's because you changed your surname. Bit rigidly traditional.

The OP changed her surname by choice (assuming she isn't in an environment where she has to). This choice doesn't mean she must be referred to by a first name that isn't her.

My mum used to throw away all post she got addressed to Mrs His Initial Surname. I don’t think she gets much like it these days as the people who addressed her as such as mostly dead. I always thought how amazing it was that she did that

Well said Mariel.

The OP changed her surname by choice

But why change it at all - and why should the woman be the one who is expected to change her name to the man’s? To me that’s just as outdated and sexist a notion as the predicament the OP is referring to in her post.

Mariel has it dead on.

And by the way, I changed my name to DH’s when we got married, but if I could go back in time then I wouldn’t have.

I changed my surname on marriage for several reasons. One was because I wanted us all to gave the same surname - it's quite handy - and I wasn't wedded to, erm, my FATHER'S name.

I don't see how that means I am a victim of patriarchy. And I did not also change my first name to Jeremy. I am still Cassandra, just Cassandra Johnson not Cassandra Simpson. But my name is not Jeremy Johnson and never will be.

I got married. I changed my surname. I got a joint bank account and a joint mortgage. I didn't become part of my husband's property, it give up work, I still have the vote...the surname change was one thing, not a total collapse and sublimation of myself to "the patriarchy"

That should say "didn't give up work" (cos some years ago women did that when they got married. Like, in the 70s!).

Wish my name really was Cassandra btw (wistful)