To think everyone saying Shamima Begum should rot in Syria have completely overlooked the fact that she is pregnant

[StepAwayFromGoogle]

Just that really. She did a terrible thing going to Syria to marry an ISIS fighter. But she was only 15 and probably incredibly naive. She has already lost two children, one as a complication of malnutrition. And the child she is pregnant with has done nothing wrong. Surely we shouldn't leave him or her there to die too?

I'm amazed that people who have supported our troops e.g. translating and guiding have a real problem getting leave to remain even though they share our values and this piece of crap expects to be allowed back in without a problem

Beheaded heads didnt faze her. They were someone's child too. She made this decision for herself and in consequence, any future offspring.

So the beheaded people - that was ok because they were ‘enemies’? What does that make is to her - or her to us?

So no, I don’t want her living next to me or her kids at school with mine.

She's a 19 year old, without ready access to weapons, in a country in which her ideology is both despised and very much visible. Sure, she's a pretty appalling human being, but the idea that she presents an existential threat to Syria is inflating her importance to match her own egotism. She's much more of risk to the UK, where there is a ready audience for her vile ideas and where she would get support from like-minded people and her family, than she is in Syria, where she's just a loser in a refugee camp.

That’s not really true, it assumes the power of foresight that ISIS were going to lose the whole time she was there.

She went at a time when ISIS was very powerful and controlled are large area spanning several countries. She actively promoted the ISIS power systems and infrastructure and in particular acted as a recruiting tool for male jihadis to join up and start a family there. ISIS’s whole caliphate was based on the idea that the faithful would flock there to support and defend the caliphate.

She probably has had access to weapons, we know women in ISIS have fought. Foreign women in ISIS were particularly active at oppressing, torturing and killing the local female population and acting as morality police. Given that she appears to have moved with the receding ISIS front, only leaving it when defeat was absolutely certain, also makes it very likely she was armed and fighting to some extent reasonably recently.

She might not be an ‘existential threat’ now, but foreign women joining ISIS really, really were a threat for a good few years.

Minimising that by saying she’s just a loser in a camp is just wrong. She was an active adherent of a philosophy which intentionally caused huge harm to others.

Minimising that by saying she’s just a loser in a camp is just wrong. She was an active adherent of a philosophy which intentionally caused huge harm to others.

I don't disagree. There is however almost no chance whatsoever of the UK government prosecuting her for actions in Syria and elsewhere, as there is no evidence and no credible testimony, and there is even less chance of there being a trial in territory as they have far bigger to fry. So the question is what to do with her now. My answer would be "nothing": she is not particularly dangerous to Syria right now, and they will have no qualms about an extra-judicial execution if she starts to present one, whereas she would present a significant risk to the UK while we are much less likely to be able to deal with her. She is unlikely to leave Syria alive, and unlikely to return to the UK. If she does, let's cross that bridge when we come to it, but for now, the status quo is fine. She isn't a risk to Syria, even if she has done heinous things, and she is a risk to the UK, even if she did nothing beyond cooking and first aid lessons (for clarity, I think like you she has done heinous things). She is probably going to be killed where she is. Overall, pragmatically, outside the world of Cage Prisoners, most people are probably OK with that.

She would not have given a second thought to other pregnant women who may have been killed or made homeless or live in constant fear due to the actions of isis.
She hates the uk when it suits but now wants to use our NHS. No sorry

She's much more of risk to the UK, where there is a ready audience for her vile ideas and where she would get support from like-minded people and her family, than she is in Syria, where she's just a loser in a refugee camp.

Are you imagining she’ll just waltz back into the U.K. and be allowed to resume a normal life? She will be arrested, investigated and most likely prosecuted and imprisoned. That would be the just outcome, and the one that ensures we are taking responsibility for our own shitty citizens and the atrocities they commit. We don’t have the right to inflict them on the world because we don’t want to deal with them.

What crime do you think she has committed for which there is proof beyond a reasonable doubt and for which she is likely receive a significant custodial sentence? No, I don’t think so either.

She’s a UK citizen - I’m confused by the language around this being ‘should she be allowed back’ - I don’t think we have any legal basis to refuse her do we? We don’t have to go and pick her up from a refugee camp in Syria, but if she presents either at our border or at an embassy/consulate then we have an obligation, legally and I believe morally.

She’s British and we are responsible for her. We failed to prevent her and her friends being groomed and radicalised here in the UK, and now we have a situation where her friend is dead, two of her children are dead, she’s about to give birth to a third in a refugee camp, and her psychological state is such that she might never be completely deprogrammed and may present an ongoing security risk in the UK - nevertheless it is our responsibility to manage that, not wash our hands of it.

If she does make it to Turkey or Iraq she should be bought back, questioned, assessed, prosecuted for whatever offences we have evidence for. I expect she’ll face a lengthy prison sentence and a lot of supervision and restrictions on her life afterwards. Her baby would be put up for adoption.

‘Leaving her to rot’, ‘don’t care what happens to her child’, ‘she didn’t care so why should we’ type attitudes make ‘us’ as bad as ‘them’ and I would hope that the UK is better than that, honestly.

I think the question here is if she makes it to an embassy. I expect a charity or other private individuals might support her to do that. I can’t imagine she’s in a particularly safe place right now and it seems distinctly possible she might be killed where she is.

Just watched the news and it mentioned numbers of people who left to join daesh

They must be fairly rough

So 900 left, 180 dead, 360 have already returned with 360 unaccounted for

Why is this woman different from the 360 already returned

Is it because no one noticed the other 360 return and there wasnt so much about it on the news?

Javid was also on the telly saying he would do everything in his power to stoo people like this returning

Not done a good job so far!

She’s a UK citizen

We cannot revoke citizenship and make people stateless.

People who renounce their own citizenship are not subject to the same restriction. There are several reasons to want to do this, notably if you intend to take the citizenship of a country which does not allow dual nationality or as a dual national you wish to take dual nationality in a country that does not allow three (a friend has renounced Jordanian citizenship so he take British citizenship while retaining his American citizenship). It is not the uk’s responsibility to check the consequences of this, or undo buyer’s remorse.

She renounced her uk citizenship. There is an argument this renunciation is invalid. She or her lawyers will need to make that case. Let them.

Is it because no one noticed the other 360 return and there wasnt so much about it on the news?

Probably. Plus the sense of entitlement, and the bald-faced lack of any pretence at remorse. She knows she was right, and would still be harassing the locals if things hadn't gone sadly awry.

There’s a saying.
Not my circus, not my monkey.
She is actively contributing to the killing, torture, death and destruction of many innocent lives. Why should she now gain protection from torture, death and murder just because she is pregnant (for the 3rd time) and wants this baby to survive. Why not her first baby? Why not her second? Why does she only now want to return? Because her husband died.
It’s her circus, these are her monkeys and she now has to deal with that.
Fate has dealt a sucky blow to her unborn child yes, but what hope can a child have who is born to someone like her?

I read a great comment that sums it all up really in response to the family pleading for the uk to help her return
“You want your baby back so she can be protected.
“I don’t want her back so my babies can be protected”

So any 15 year old groomed and impregnated by a 27year old man should just Live with it. I mean it’s their fault really their choice to get groomed.
Guess we should be letting some men out of prison.
Or does the sympathy only extend to the non brown ones?

I actually feel sick thay ANYONE is trying to sympathise with this barbaric individual - or claiming she was groomed and didn't know what she was doing etc.

She deserves to rot there and I don't give a flying fuck about her baby.

She renounced her uk citizenship.

Did she? In a formal, legally binding manner? The UK government seems to have acknowledged that she is a UK citizen and has a right of entry, just that we’re not going to go out of our way to facilitate that.

How come there is a lot of sympathy and saying because she was only 15 and groomed let's welcome her back with open arms. When the young girls in Rochdale etc who were 15 or younger should stop complaining.
As someone else has said she cares for her child what about our children.

Begum only wants to return to the U.K. now because Daesh are close to being defeated. Even if she was groomed, that didn’t happen in a vacuum - her father was pictured taking part in a march organised by an Islamic extremist before she chose to travel to Syria, so it seems unlikely her family were unaware and unsupportive of her ideals. She is not at all a reformed character, she is someone who chose to surrender her British citizenship to live in the Daesh caliphate. Her choice, let her live with it instead of being allowed to return here to groom others.

If she returns I think an example will be made of her. The principle of hatred for her country is one aspect of it, and the atrocities carried out in the name of daish.
She was an intelligent girl, a university level student. It's hard to imagine how a girl brought up in comfortable surroundings would be attracted to this violent culture.

The Times interview has sparked hatred for her. But I don't feel that I am qualified to judge her as until she is back, interviewed and an assessment made of her we don't know whether this is a young brainwashed girl or a hardened terrorist. I do feel sympathy for her parents as they must be going through a hard time.

A pp mentioned a 15 yr old being married to a 27 yr old she's a 19 year old married to a 27 yr old, her husband would have been 23 at the time they married.

She's a British Citizen. I doubt she can be denied entry to the UK, in that respect.

Leave her to get here under her own steam would be the right thing. However I doubt she'll be able to arrange that or even safely leave Syria.

Also minded that she could be coming right back here to her groomers again.

I have no belief whatsoever that the government will make monitoring her an ongoing priority. They're not that efficient.

Even if she was groomed, that didn’t happen in a vacuum - her father was pictured taking part in a march organised by an Islamic extremis

Her friend’s father. But the crucial difference between this and Rotherham is that they sought out the groomers, and made complex plans to join them. They sought them out. They planned. They knew about the rape and killing and chose to seek it out. They are but victims.

To respond to the OP, I haven't overlooked anything

How patronising

ThatssomebadhatHarry

Or does the sympathy only extend to the non brown ones?

I don't see anyone having sympathy for Sally Jones, who was also a recruiter for ISIS.