To think everyone saying Shamima Begum should rot in Syria have completely overlooked the fact that she is pregnant

[StepAwayFromGoogle]

Just that really. She did a terrible thing going to Syria to marry an ISIS fighter. But she was only 15 and probably incredibly naive. She has already lost two children, one as a complication of malnutrition. And the child she is pregnant with has done nothing wrong. Surely we shouldn't leave him or her there to die too?

She made her choice. She should stay where she is. I have no sympathy for her whatsoever.

Erm, at no point did I say she was marvellous and kind.

No, what I actually suggested was that people like you choose to defend the indefensible because it makes you feel superior and good about yourself.

And all this ‘oh well I teach children this age and they’re easily led’ crap is just insulting bullshit.

This is not shop lifting or petty crime or flirting with drugs or underage sexual activity or an illicit fag and can of cider.

They destroyed half a country. They murdered people, they tortured people, they enslaved people and raped people (including children). They displaced millions of people FFS.

This was all public knowledge before she went. And they went willingly, they weren’t coerced and has plenty of opportunity for second thoughts.

Saying ‘Oh a big boy did it and ran away’ just doesn’t fucking cut it. People who actually were completely innocent, babies, children, mothers are dead because of these people. They can’t just say sorry and expect it to be forgotten.

It seems to me that there are some who think that her being pregnant somehow absolves her from responsibility for her actions. Why is that?

Well Prevent was stepped up since she left, it was met with the usual cries of racism even though they are targeting right wing nationalists, it's a knife edge scenario though where some think it's targeting "wrong think" and others thinking it's outright racist.

Eeeeh. While I don't disagree with your essential point at all, the online Prevent training provided by the government was rather ham-fisted. "Abdul is a Muslim. He's 13 and has taken to being moody and spending a long time on his own in his bedroom on the internet. While he might be exhibiting all of the signs of a grumpy teenage boy who has just discovered the joys of wanking and internet porn; he's probably a terrorist."

I think the fact that she refuses to express regret says it all. Who needs her? Resources are limited and there are more deserving people who could use them.

Bejam you've summed up exactly what I wanted to say!

She is British, and you can't just ignore that because she has committed a crime. Prisons are full if awful people, but we can't just deport them all.

IMO, let her come back (I'm sure she will find a newspaper to pay for it). Then let her stand trial and have a judge decide whether she was too young to be held accountable in a court of law.

'They're just kids'
This isn't about getting caught shoplifting or drinking shitty cider in the local park with their mates. This is actively going to another country to commit atrocities. To kill people and their babies as they didn't fit into or adhere to their own ideals!
This was done with the full understanding of their own actions. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous. Sometimes the blame lies solely at the persons feet and not some convoluted external factor.

We don’t need to deport her , she’s already there . Let her stay there

'They're just kids'
This isn't about getting caught shoplifting or drinking shitty cider in the local park with their mates. This is actively going to another country to commit atrocities. To kill people and their babies as they didn't fit into or adhere to their own ideals!

You’re absolutely correct. But what is it that drives a child to go and do these horrific things?

I do believe she should be allowed back and charged and imprisoned. She shouldn’t be allowed out in the world where she can continue to do harm. I’m just sorry that children from the UK were able to go in the first place without it being noticed and them being deradicalised.

The Home Office should rip her passport up. Bloody traitor!

She should NOT be allowed back, let alone have her brat paid for by us. Leave her to rot there!

You’re absolutely correct. But what is it that drives a child to go and do these horrific things?

The mean streets of Bethnal Green? The E bacc? Ofsted league tables? Glee rather declining in its later series? There’s something rather Ali G about making out she was the victim of the worst the west can offer.

She was a child and it still a British citizen
Bring her back , let her face justice here and have the child handled as social services deem

We can’t change the rules and protocol because we don’t like her

Benjam - firstly, I am not defending her. At all. Secondly, she was a child at 15. Being groomed is very different to being 'easily led'. You are minimising, paraphrasing and twisting my words to suit your argument. Finally, you know absolutely nothing about me. You might not agree with my opinion, but it is quite an aspersion to suggest I only hold it because I want to feel superior and good about myself. That isnt true at all. But then you know that.

I’m just sorry that children from the UK were able to go in the first place without it being noticed and them being deradicalised

So are you saying that we should have closely monitored Muslim children because of IS, because that is what your leaning on saying we should have done more with an added sad face

If she came back to the UK and was put in prison she would just try to radicalise others in prison, I hope she would be imprisoned for a long time. I know she was groomed and radicalised but she must have gone looking for the groomers in the first place and she was an intelligent girl, she could have stopped this before it went too far. If she’d murdered someone at 15 I’d want her to be imprisoned for a long time and I think her crime is on par with murder.

I’m sorry for her unborn child and if she does make it back to the UK I would hope the child (and any subsequent children) would be adopted out to strangers as it is clearly not in the child’s best interests to be raised by her or anyone close to her.

I find the fact that she is being mixed in with refugees very problematic. That terrorists might be hiding within the refugees is a common argument used against accepting them and allowing them to resettle in safety. A person who completely voluntarily joined a terrorist organization should not be considered a refugee because it makes things harder on the legitimate victims. Note that I am emphasizing the voluntarily component because I am not talking about children given no choice but to join a violent organization controlling their community.

Nah - she can remain where she is. No way do I want to pay for her upkeep in jail. She made her choice - too bad. Bet she feels like a grown up now eh?

Some people here seem quite angry about the idea that there may have been a reason why she was radicalised but I do think it’s a relevant discussion.

So are you saying that we should have closely monitored Muslim children because of IS, because that is what your leaning on saying we should have done more with an added sad face

Erm no, I’m saying we should be monitoring all children to see if they’re slipping through the cracks. If I actually had the answer to this problem, I would state it. I seem to be pissing you off, but it doesn’t change the facts that at the point she left the UK she was actually a child. I’m simply trying to discuss that.

There are kids the same age being groomed by gangs to sell drugs and mug people, stab people and murder people. Kids are indoctrinated to believe that the only way of life is to be part of a gang, that thug life is the way to protect yourself and make money. Grooming is not just an issue that affects Muslims.

if the need to prevent grooming is so obvious, how would the British Muslim community react to the monitoring of young Muslims to watch for evidence of radicalisation? Or wound that be criticised as racist?

Interesting point ...

"horrific. More needs to be done to stop our kids being victims of these evil bastards."
Presumably those evil bastards were once innocent children themselves, until they were radicalised. Where does the buck stop?

She was a child

She was 15. Anyone from 0 - 17 is a child. 15 year olds are not comparable to six year olds. They are almost adults, with minds of their own. And as we all know from the Bulger case, 10 yo is deemed old enough to know right from wrong.

So if you are of the opinion that SB should be absolved because she was a child, do you have the same opinion of Messrs. Thompson and Venables?

That is my point - you cant absolve these girls from what they have done despite the fact that they have been groomed. We need to stop more kids from becoming victims. We should be learning from this. It was obvious the moment those girls left that there lives would be completely ruined should they survive. Not to mention the awful things that they may have done to others. The vicious circle needs to be broken.

What I'm really surprised at is that she has not said, ' I just want to see my family, it's been horrific, I miss all that is good about Britain.'

If I were in her shoes I would say that, if only to give my unborn child a chance. She hasn't because, she can't bring herself to, or she is very arrogant or very stupid.

I'm glad I don't have to make a decisicion about her baby's life. I find it very strange.