To think everyone saying Shamima Begum should rot in Syria have completely overlooked the fact that she is pregnant

[StepAwayFromGoogle]

Just that really. She did a terrible thing going to Syria to marry an ISIS fighter. But she was only 15 and probably incredibly naive. She has already lost two children, one as a complication of malnutrition. And the child she is pregnant with has done nothing wrong. Surely we shouldn't leave him or her there to die too?

So there is no difference between recruiting a child and recruiting an adult?

Best not to engage!

I see Bangladesh have just said she isn't welcome there!

To be fair, they have had more terrorist attacks so have more of a security and safety risk there than the UK.

Looks like Sajid Javid's plan has foiled or worked if he wants to blame international laws.

These girls were sexually groomed. Of course they were. They left to become ISIS wives, not fighters. They were ‘married’ to much older men the moment they arrived, impregnated, and condemned to a life of having endless children and washing jihadis socks. It’s not like she was free to leave. A 15 year old can’t consent to marriage or sex with an older man. Presumably she would have been in contact online for some time before she left so was quite possibly 14 when the grooming and radicalisation began. Im very uneasy about some of the comments on these threads.

Agreed @Suffragette.

Shamima Begum will not be allowed here, says Bangladeshi Minster of Foreign Affairs

I'm very uneasy that a 15 year old could see beheadings and people being burnt alive and think running off to join Isis was a good idea Tiny.

Absolutely understand why they don't want her: who would!

Fair play to them for coming out not long after the idea was mooted-not much heart searching there and I don't blame them,

But if their laws say she is a citizen automatically through her mother than hopefully they can't leave the UK with this ISIS Warrior. I don't want her next door to me.

How are all the journalists getting access to her?

I wondered that. Also is the camp well equipped with medical facilities or was she just fortunate to give birth without any problems?

I don’t give a fuck about her or her offspring. I wouldn’t normally ever say that about a child but how do we know her child isn’t going to grow up seeking some sort of revenge and be brainwashed into becoming a terrorist?
The child isn’t British either so it’s not our problem. The child’s father is from Holland I have heard so he could go there. Her father has been seen photographed in hateful demonstrations with anjem choudary burning our flag.
At 15 you do make mistakes and are naive but she joined a terrorist organisation who torture and kill people that’s not an immature mistake. She’s an evil cunt.
It’s people like her that cause things like the Manchester bombings should look after our own children over here. This country lets any fucker in and that’s why we have a terrorist problem it’s become the norm for bombs to go off about the place and people being killed because of a messed up ideology. Plus they don’t like this country they hate us should fuckoff to an Islamic country ( and no that doesn’t go for people who come here to work and live a good life and like our western ways before you call me racist).

Our YOI and prisons are full of males who have been groomed into criminal gangs. It starts early as the adult gangs realise it's safer to get kids to run their drugs, shoot their 'target' as they will be let off the more severe sentences.
Shall we let them out?
Or do we recognise that they are still dangerous, have committed criminal offences and have to deal with the consequences of their actions. Many of them have been damaged beyond repair - as indeed have their victims and their families. We cannot even claim to successfully rehabilitate people in our prison system.

If Begum's 'grooming' can be reversed, it is just likely to happen where she is now. It's a tough call - but our 'prevent' strategy is inadequate. Our social services cannot cope. Our police are under resourced. Our prison service is under resourced.Our education system cannot deal with the problems it already has. Most significantly, her "support network" in the UK are clearly people that need to be distanced from her - not brought together with her, as they are not even getting to first base convincing people she has any remorse or understanding of the outrage felt at what is coming out of their mouths about the country and culture who gave them a safe place to live in the first place.

Of approximately 900 people who had gone to Syria from the UK, 20% were believed to have been killed and about 40% had returned to the UK, the home secretary said. “I assure this house the majority have been assessed to pose no or a low-security status,” he said.

Is that 360 wives and children? No fighters amongst that number? And all a lesser risk than SB? I find that hard to believe. Now that Bangladesh have announced their position it makes Sajid's decision look very reactionary and populist and it doesn't help explain how we are any safer from the ones already returned nor what justice they faced. FFS

But surely someone groomed to commit an atrocity should be treated differently to someone committing it open eyed. Should child soldiers be tried for war crimes in the same way as adults? Was Myra Hindley culpable in the same way that Ian Brady is?

But how do you decide who has been groomed and who is ‘open eyed’? Where does the buck spot? We know Shamima was aware of atrocities before she went and while she was there.

Young white people might well be radicalised online by the far right using very similar methods but I really can’t see you wheeling out your sympathy bandwagon for them

That’s all it is to you, grooming. It’s a convenient excuse for people you want to excuse.

It must be amazing being a liberal leftie. Just waking up every morning, seeing what the issues of the day are thinking what the logical, rational response is and then just doing completely the opposite. Always prioritising the wicked and the harmful above the innocent and harmless.

In answer to your original question, child soldiers are kidnapped from their family and coerced into fighting so they are not culpable for things other people made them do. Shamima was not forced or coerced and she had hundreds if not thousands of chances to stop everything and not going to Syria but she didn’t take them. She is culpable .

Regarding Hindley and Brady, it’s not a fucking league table you know. There isn’t some sort of points system. When two people have as a team killed multiple children, it doesn’t matter who is worst or more to blame, the only thing that mattters is that they are two very evil people who needed to be locked away forever.

“Shall we let them out?
Or do we recognise that they are still dangerous, have committed criminal offences and have to deal with the consequences of their actions.“

Of course we don’t let them out. But don’t we recognise they have been groomed in the way we punish then try to rehabilitate them?

A 15 year old can’t consent to marriage or sex with an older man

Sadly, in the ideology she so admires, they can and do. Child brides are very common. (Wonder what age her mother married at - just curious).

@Tinyteatime Shamima may well have been groomed but that doesn't mean she is not dangerous. If she was brainwashed, who knows what she is capable of? However, I am not sure that she should be foisted onto another country to deal with. Why is she Bangladesh's problem any more than the UK's problem? I don't want her in the UK but at least she would be monitored (we hope) here and maybe sent to prison.

I'm sure the Syrians can deal with her. It was to Syria that she fled with evil in her heart.

She can't stay where she is, after all nobody carried her kicking and screaming onto the plane to get there.

Of course we don’t let them out. But don’t we recognise they have been groomed in the way we punish then try to rehabilitate them?

Yes, but we abjectly fail at that.
We cannot get control in our prisons so we 'contain' rather than rehabilitate.
The prison service is chronically understaffed - you need to look at the percentage of officers leaving, unable to cope, look at the numbers of mentally ill we keep in prison, the drug 'spice' problem and the overcrowding! Look at the radicalisation going on in prison!
It is naive to imagine we can deal with this situation - we cannot.
Cuts to public service are too severe and policies too unimaginative.

Can stay. Bloody iPad.

brass, that figure is people who went to Syria. It is not a figure for UK ISIS supporters. They may well have been fighting against them with the YPG.

None of the rest of your bleeding heart trite bollocks makes any sense. Just because there may be people here already who might wish to cause harm doesn’t mean that makes it a free for all that any nutter with an axe to grind and a tenuous link to the UK gets waved through.

It’s the left wing’s gamble based on their hierarchy of victimhood isn’t it? Shamima is valued much more by the LW because of who she is and what she’s done. They won’t admit it, but if 20 jihadi brides came back and that lead to 50 little girls being killed at a concert, that would be a perfectly reasonable price to the left because jihadi brides’ right to live where they want on full benefits is so much more important to them than the right of other little girls just to stay alive.

Surely we shouldn't leave him or her there to die too?

How do we even know it is her baby? Wouldn't put anything past her.

It would be far cheaper to allow her and her child to re-enter the UK, with Shamima facing 'criminal' charges (even if new Law needs to be created), rehabilitation and a lifetime of monitoring than the costs of the continual legal challenges against doing otherwise.

Keep your enemy 'close' - she's far more valuable for 'research purposes'.

She's the 'tip' of the iceberg, so best get a structure in place as there will be more like her.

Her Family need to fully understand the seriousness of her situation over the past few years and help in any way they can to identify why their daughter did what she did and how she could do it.

Also, instinctively, I feel that she should come back here, hopefully one day she will appreciate where she was born and grew up and now appreciates how good that will be for her only surviving child too. She probably already does.

“Just because there may be people here already who might wish to cause harm doesn’t mean that makes it a free for all that any nutter with an axe to grind and a tenuous link to the UK gets waved through.”
Who gets waved through?

“They won’t admit it, but if 20 jihadi brides came back and that lead to 50 little girls being killed at a concert, that would be a perfectly reasonable price to the left because jihadi brides’ right to live where they want on full benefits is so much more important to them than the right of other little girls just to stay alive.”

Fuck me, that’s an offensive thing to say!