To think everyone saying Shamima Begum should rot in Syria have completely overlooked the fact that she is pregnant

[StepAwayFromGoogle]

Just that really. She did a terrible thing going to Syria to marry an ISIS fighter. But she was only 15 and probably incredibly naive. She has already lost two children, one as a complication of malnutrition. And the child she is pregnant with has done nothing wrong. Surely we shouldn't leave him or her there to die too?

The baby is not our responsibility, any more than the women is. Young "Warlord" was a bad choice for the name and shows what she still is. We are too soft in the UK.

Poor Myra Hindley was groomed as well 😩

Thousands of inmates in UK prisons could be seen as 'victims of grooming'. I believe Rose West was raped regularly by her own father. James Bulgers murderers were victims of chronic parental neglect. Many paedophiles were sexually abused as children. Gang murderers were often been exposed to gang practices and brutality as children (Stephen Lawrence's killers were the children of racist gangsters). The list goes on. That does not make them innocent as adults or make them safe to be on our streets.

We have not got the solution to these 'groomed' adults much as we might like one, and until we do the reality is we are much safer with these now adult perpetrators behind bars.

This IS adult is dangerous on so many levels. She is wanting a return to the UK, not because she has 'reformed' or apologetic, but because she wants the NHS services it can provide. She recognises she is an IS poster girl and feels 'victimised' by having her citizenship withdrawn. Odd how she has suddenly found her voice - and when she speaks, it's only to get sympathy for herself. It really is a vomit inducing performance. (and performance is what it is).

She wanted to live among murderous rapists, still wants to join her terrorist husband, wants Sharia Law and a life where she can openly speak of supporting terrorist killings. It's beyond belief why lawyers are asking her return to the UK - as none of that is available here. There are still sadly countries where she can live with that fundamentalist oppression - odd she is not seeking refuge there.

yougov.co.uk/opi/surveys/results#/survey/f6385dae-34fd-11e9-af57-67fad969c339
A YouGov poll says that 76% of people support the stripping of SB's British citizenship. It reflects a great deal of anger. Does it mean that 76% of people are racist? I have a different view. She should come back here and face justice. That is dependent on the baby being DNA tested though.

@GTH

You know, I don't think that is her baby.

It's either a bundle of rags-a fart with a bonnet on it- or it is one that she has managed to get her grubby hands on for the purpose of the media circus that now surrounds her. She also thinks it will muddy the waters and make it harder for people to tell her to piss away off and wait for Syrian justice.

It's just all too convenient, too coincidental, too stage managed!

Just been on Twitter and the brilliant satirist Titania McGrath is condemning revulsion at ISIS as racism and Islamophobia.

It’s funny because it’s true. There have been plenty of people on here willing to condemn those who don’t accept Shamima’s innocence but couldn’t give two hoots about the victims of ISIS.

I would argue that in reality they are actually the biggest racists, because they don’t care about the mainly brown victims of ISIS and they also don’t believe it’s fair to hold brown people to even the most basic tenets of civilised society like not raping or killing anybody.

Yes, there remains some legal liability even if your cult or group or groomer has brainwashed you and rightly so- Yorkshire ripper's wife is another example (as well as Myra Hindley).

If let them off scott free then people will just use that excuse in countless cases.

It is a very popular move to ensure she has to fall back on her rights in Bangladesh.

Condemning ISIS is Islamaphobia?

I have heard it all now.

However there should be fairness and it seems to me lots of ISIS fighters have returned to zero justice

My Muslim relatives condemn isis and this twit. Racists? Who’d’ve thunk it?

It's a mad, mad world!

The thing is on the internet, on this forum, those saying this ISIS Warrior was groomed could be anybody from the hard of thinking to actual ISIS Warriors themselves.

Hopefully, most of them are dim,misguided or devoid of imagination but there is always the risk that some of them are at least ISIS sympathisers.

Let's hope Mumsnet isn't prey to another cyber attack that gives away all our addresses to them!

“Yes, there remains some legal liability even if your cult or group or groomer has brainwashed you and rightly so- Yorkshire ripper's wife is another example (as well as Myra Hindley).”
Of course. But surely someone groomed to commit an atrocity should be treated differently to someone committing it open eyed. Should child soldiers be tried for war crimes in the same way as adults? Was Myra Hindley culpable in the same way that Ian Brady is?

Did someone speak more bullshit?

They are very difficult issues. Scientologists engaging in alleged fair game activities against apostates or Evril Le Baron fundamentalists mormons who murdered because a leader told them to and countless others are all hard cases. When are you bad or mad? Is anyone ever really entirely responsible or are they all just a product of their environment? Is prison to reform or punlish? Etc etc.

Luckily this lady has the other nationality so we can wash her hands of her and need to do so for all the others too where that is legally possible. Her parents could go to Bangladesh and raise the family there perhaps if they all want to stay together. The UK isn't the best place on earth so not everyone is rushing to be here anyway.

I certainly agree the law allows for when people aren't liable, don't have mens rea etc. If someone sleep walks and kills someone that is not their fault.

It seems to me that being “groomed” is an excuse for just about anything these days. She managed to orchestrate her departure from this country on a stolen passport, isn’t phased by dismembered bodies in bins, excuses the Manchester bombing, claims her child died of malnutrition while appearing pretty well fed herself and has shown no remorse. Yet she was “groomed” and is deserving of sympathy. Like fuck she is.

So are you saying grooming doesn’t exist?

Stupid bloody question. Of course it does. Not in this case though.

Sorry, I misunderstood you. What does count as grooming? This woman left the country at 15-presumably she had been in regular contact with iSIS recruiters for a while- at least a year?- before that? Is that not grooming/brainwashing- whatever you like to call it? Like the Moonies and other cults?

Poster: This flower is not yellow.

Bert: Are you saying yellow doesn't exist then.

Good for a laugh if nothing else

Bert waving the black flag again!

Alsohuman I agree.
I also worry how easy it is to claim 'grooming' is why you are not accountable for your own actions.
Deception is easy!
How many criminals manage to convince parole boards that they should be released - only to commit the same crime again?
How easy it would be for terrorists to convince someone they have been 'groomed'!
Is there an age when 'grooming' would no longer be accepted as an excuse?
We might as well just open the prison doors wide open and let all the inmates out and brace ourself for compensation claims!

Suffragette- I was responding to a poster who said that grooming was being used as an excuse for just about anything these days. I misunderstood her to mean that she doesn’t think grooming is a “thing” I was wrong.

I see Bangladesh have just said she isn't welcome there!

Looks like Syria is home then. Must be difficult to live amongst those to whom you wanted to do immense harm, when they now have the upper hand.

I'm filling up!

Someone address me? There certainly was an overwhelming stink of shite that I'll just ignore.

It’s recruiting, @Bertrand. I’ve been accused of being a bleeding heart liberal in my time but you reach new heights I couldn’t begin to aspire to.

“Is there an age when 'grooming' would no longer be accepted as an excuse?”
Not an excuse-an explanation. Grooming is an expression, as I understand it, that only applies to children.