To think everyone saying Shamima Begum should rot in Syria have completely overlooked the fact that she is pregnant

[StepAwayFromGoogle]

Just that really. She did a terrible thing going to Syria to marry an ISIS fighter. But she was only 15 and probably incredibly naive. She has already lost two children, one as a complication of malnutrition. And the child she is pregnant with has done nothing wrong. Surely we shouldn't leave him or her there to die too?

She has had 4 years of being treated as a superior being (remember the women were given powers to dish out punishments and I remember reading a piece a while ago that says that the British women were deemed the most vicious and nasty when it came to this). She is still an arrogant ‘warrior wife’. Reminds me of the arrogance of some high ranking nazi wives after ww2.

As I understand it, it’s not a question of lack of jurisdiction in camps. There is no British consular service in Syria: it was withdrawn in 2012, deemed too dangerous to staff. She would have to make her own way to the nearest representation (in Turkey I believe). There is no legal (nor arguably moral) obligation to assist her in doing so.

drivinmecrazy I just watched the Sky interview and noticed the reporter was indeed there in person, which I admit confused me a bit

Doubtless these correspondents have bodyguards and of course there'll be welfare staff present, but if the camp's really the hellhole many insist, how come an increasing line of reporters are gaining access? After all, moving around in Syria's hardly like nipping over to Calais "jungle" is it?

As said, I just hope nobody uses this access (and Shamima's growing "celebrity status" ) to play an active part in getting her out of there

What's really pissing me off is the comparison to grooming victims. Everyone swallowed the narrative of the girls being victims (they are) but that was NOT the opinion of the general public let alone the police and social services at one time. I was a feisty mouthy kid in care who caused trouble for fun (yes there were deeper problems why lots of us behaved like we did) and the narrative of even the general public on the street was "girls making stupid choices" and "their own fault" even some sympathy towards men who we "used" at one point. That was MY experience. This attitude now to understand it, and care - is a NEW thing. The sympathy is fairly bloody NEW. The papers weren't sympathetic to us till perhaps 10-15 years ago at the earliest. I always feel the need to put a big disclaimer- I wasn't personally groomed by a "grooming gang" though I was friends with a few involved later, and I lived with girls who I believed were choosing to be "prostitutes" as that was completely the narrative in everyone's mind - silly girls who make stupid decisions.

The attitude that is shown towards this 19 year old who was 15 then... is exactly the way we were thought of then. Made their bed, lie in it.

I don't like who she is, what she believes... I don't have a huge desire to hug her and welcome her home but she is someone I feel sympathy with for getting involved in something she thought she could handle, and couldn't. Incredibly reminiscent to me of "grooming"

Baby’s father is Dutch. Why can’t she go to the Netherlands? Oh yeah, NHS.

She is what she is now though. A war hardened, arrogant and dangerous woman.

In her interview she stated she had been in contact with her family because a previous journalist had given her use of his phone

Yes, that's a point ... and how does it fit in with the lawyer saying they'd had "no direct contact" and wanted to "establish communication"? Even if he said it before Shamima accessed a phone, there appear to be an awful lot of lies being told here - lies which would doubtless continue if she ever made it back to the UK

I admit to total ignorance as to how things are in Syrian camps, or how journalists manage to get access and keep themselves alive, but does anyone know if there would be anything to stop those journalists helping her out of there by giving her a lift the 60 odd miles to the Turkish border?

If this woman makes her way to Turkey she will no doubt be offered British Consular services. In this case she should be interviewed to provide information as to who facilitated her trip to Syria when she was 15. Who paid for it? What groups gave her the information and connections to do what she did? Where is her husband? Why is he not providing for his family? Does she support the barbaric IS regime? It is a piss take to expect the British government to rescue her from the shit hole she chose to go to if she still holds the belief that IS is justified in the crimes and murders they comit.

What would she be doing now if her husband hadn't got captured.

She wants her life back in Syria but since that isn’t going to happen, fancies coming back to the uk where she feels that she will be free and can do what she likes. Not Saudi or Pakistan then?
Why would she want to go to Saudi or Pakistan?

She remains a British citizen of Bangladeshi heritage who chose to go to support ISIS in Syria.

Why can’t she go to the Netherlands? Oh yeah, NHS

She is not a citizen of the Netherlands. She's British, that's why.
Unless she has citizenship of another country too, the law states we have to accept her so far as I am aware.

GirraffeDuck

And you clearly should have the last word on your lived experience. But, respectfully, I don’t think the two situations bear comparison.
Coverage when she left suggested that she was a bright girl from a supportive family doing well at School. Her meticulously planned actions then and what she has potentially committed since do not suggest vulnerability and go way beyond normal teenage acting up and causing trouble for fun, which is why there is little or no sympathy for the situation she has placed herself in. Thousands of young people, vulnerable and otherwise, were undoubtedly exposed to the same propaganda but did not make the same choice because fundamentally, having been brought up in a generally pretty humane society with rights and life chances beyond those afforded in many parts of the world, they knew the difference between right and wrong. At some point, and based upon my own children I think most 15 year olds are equipped to make rational decisions, we all have to accept a degree of personal responsibility for our choices and actions.
For me, the bottom line is should she actively be offered assistance to return to the UK with her child, effectively be rescued from the camp, and that gets a resounding no from me. If she presents herself at a consulate, she should thereafter be treated according to the law and dealt with accordingly.

So now the baby is born it is automatically a Dutch national and not British. Which means we have no obligation to take in the baby. Lets hope the mother stays in Syria to look after her Dutch/Syrian/ISIL son.

I also hope some newspaper doesn't fly her here just to make a headline, she will cost us millions.

@Yossarian22 I plucked Saudi and Pakistan as 2 example countries where she could live under Islamic law. isn't that what she wanted?

So now the baby is born it is automatically a Dutch national and not British.

No, that's not how it works unfortunately

@Fekko No, you’re wrong. She can live under Islamic law, Sharia law, quite happily in the U.K. as many do, peacefully going about their lives as part of society.
What she wanted was to be part of ISIS.

I don't know if the baby is automatically a Dutch citizen. There would be no proof at the moment that the babys father is who they say it is.

So now the baby is born it is automatically a Dutch national and not British.

what bollocks!

I've just watched the interview with Shamima Begum on Sky news. Don't know what to make of it, actually.
I think she looked exhausted and ill and interestingly, every time the baby next to her squawked, she didn't react or even look over at him.
I think she is possibly traumatised or severely depressed, which is maybe why people are saying she is showing no remorse. She looks dead behind the eyes.

Why was yeh baby totally covered? Was it to hide his identity from cameras, or something else? It seemed sad for a newborn to have their face covered.

Is this only a story because she was found by a journalist who went looking for her in the first place? Is there any reason to believe she wouldn’t be perfectly happy to continue living there if she didn’t have a camera in front of her and a faux sympathetic face asking stupid questions? She doesn’t even look interested. They can all fuck off.

which is maybe why people are saying she is showing no remorse.

It could also be because she has openly said she regrets nothing

I wanted the interviewer to ask her if she realised the suffering caused to thousands of Syrians and Iraqis in order to achieve an Islamic State and was she ok with it? People talk of terrorism here but it's nothing compared to the suffering of people in the part of the world.
The Mail on Sunday magazine had an article about young women whose lives had been affected by the actions of IS in Iraq. I was in tears. It's tragic.
She wanted to live under Islamic law? If she's such a good Muslim, how does she square that with choosing to live under a regime that takes young girls and women as sex slaves?

Obviously if the father isn't Dutch they baby wont be but if he is then the baby is automatically Dutch, that is the law there. In the UK you don't automatically become British just because one of your parents are British.

Hopefully we will have nothing to do with this Jihadi.