To think everyone saying Shamima Begum should rot in Syria have completely overlooked the fact that she is pregnant

[StepAwayFromGoogle]

Just that really. She did a terrible thing going to Syria to marry an ISIS fighter. But she was only 15 and probably incredibly naive. She has already lost two children, one as a complication of malnutrition. And the child she is pregnant with has done nothing wrong. Surely we shouldn't leave him or her there to die too?

I'm betting that she will be housed by the council before you can say Isis.

This woman hasn’t been yet. But there are reports today in the press that another ISIS female member has had her child removed from her care but still been housed in a council home in East London.

That makes me absolutely spitting mad. Single females without children in their care are usually sent to hostel beds, not rehoused.

Housing waiting lists in London are years and years long so she’s clearly jumped the queue. And she will have got a flat ahead of people with disabilities and sickness and women fleeing abuse.

There's another silly woman spouting off in yesterday's Mail (yes, I know, but it came up in my newsfeed ) about how she's "proof" that jihadi brides deserve a second chance. She's now living what seems to be a quite cushy and financially comfy life in the US.
So that's nice!!

There are so many who need our help - stuck in situations that are not of their own doing. She has not sought to come to uk to my knowledge until the reported tracked her down.

She didn’t try to leave after seeing murdered people, seeing the way the rightful inhabitants of the country were treated (the majority of which didn’t want them there), after baby 1, after baby 2... she would still be there if their little ‘utopia’ wasn’t about to fall. She still whinges about wanting her husband and her baby. No regrets or pity.

Ok so process her application (if she has made one). But there are many people in the queue in front of her.

I did t think being pregnant was a get out of jail free (since the days of piracy).

I feel very sorry for the child. If she brings them up - well I don’t get the feeling she will make a caring and loving mother (she seems rather self obsessed and just like a snotty teenager), definately not by the children father (possibly a murderer?). So what, adopted?

Great. And when they discover the truth about their parentage? I can see 2 possible outcomes. Romanticise the parents and follow their path or go off the rails. Would the adopters know the history of the child? They would need a load of support and counselling for the whole family.

And what of the woman herself? Her mindset is out there - no regrets no remorse. I really wouldn’t aleep easy if she was my neighbour - who she talking to? Who are the visitors? Does she want my head in a bucket - would she care? If she had more kids - what is she teaching them and do I want my kids in the same class?

It’s easy if you don’t live in an area with people like this. Very easy to pass concerns off as nimbyism. We have a few schools near us where pupils have trotted off to wage war and murder. Yes it’s worrying for us.

news.sky.com/story/is-bride-shamima-begum-gives-birth-in-syria-11640060

Breaking news.

I wonder what will happen now

Racism against Muslims also helps to breed this. Islamophobia, helps to breed this

That's perfectly true, and in fact it's why I mentioned the importance of cultural sensitivity and avoiding stereotypes

But this isn't a one-issue problem and nor are those issues mutually exclusive. It's surely possible to acknowledge that some experience racism which they rightly resent, that some are simply seeking an excuse for their own violence and also that, whatever the perceived injustices, supporting a medieval death cult is never the answer

There's also the point that, to some, even the west's attempts to protect ourselves are viewed as an act of aggression. Maybe this is dragging one too many points into it, but I'll mention again that nothing short of our own self-destruction will ever satisfy this kind of mindset - and some of us feel that our habit of constant appeasement is making a pretty good job of that

Overall, despite our many faults, this isn't some backward nation where folk stand no chance of their grievances getting a fair hearing. But for that to happen there has to be engagement - and sadly some prefer to avoid this, simply blaming everyone else instead

The ONLY reason she wants to come back is because she's STUFFED! Leave the murdering bitch there to rot

We seem to have become the doormat of the world.
It sickens me. I'm so sorry for people who have to live near them in council flats.

So one of our own citizens should become a problem for another country to deal with (as she will need to be watched by security services)

Fuck me this thread

Do I like her ? No
Not do I particularly care for her
Mobutu we can twist rules for a British citizen just because we dislike her

I agree with other pps that she shouldn't be left as a problem for Syria to sort out, they have enough problems already. Back to UK and solitary confinement so she can't radicalise other prisoners.

Racism against Muslims also helps to breed this. Islamophobia, helps to breed this

Yeah, all the Sunnis killing Shias and vice versa must have suffered from Islamophobia something shocking

I remember years ago, long before I'd ever heard the word Islamophobia, reading about small (Muslim) villages in Algeria being wiped out for being the wrong kind of Muslim. There was a jolly chant about the fact that Ramadan was a good time for killing. Who do you blame for Muslims killing each other?

Religions don't need any excuse for killing anyone who believes differently, it's as old as civilisation.

BBC TV news reporting that she has given birth to a boy. I think she will be back in the UK in a matter of weeks.

From the Sky piece:

Correspondent John Sparks has spoken to the mother and seen the child, who is in good health

the family lawyer said: "We, the family of Shamima Begum, have been informed that Shamima has given birth to her child ... as yet we have not had direct contact ... we are hoping to establish communications with her soon so that we can verify the above"

Is anyone else wondering what's going on about this "contact"? I'm assuming a lot's being done by phone, though a PP said the Times guy had visited the camp in person - so are all these correspondents there, and if so why can't the lawyer verify things through them?

I suppose I'm worried that, if it's easy to keep in touch, somebody might use that to get her out of there. And yes, before everyone starts shouting, I realise she's entitled to help if she can get to a suitable source of it ... I'm just hoping she doesn't

Strangely I feel sympathy for her. God knows why. There have been a lot of ex ISIS people come back and there hasn't been this fuss.

and there hasn't been this fuss.

Should have been. Would you want to be living in a flat next to one, not knowing?

Should have been. Would you want to be living in a flat next to one, not knowing? I agree with you. No I wouldn't.

It saddens me that we are quick to put adult responsibility for decisions onto what were then 15 year old shoulders.

This, from the same forum that generally believes a 15 year old cannot stay at home alone for a week. Yet somehow this 15 year old must "rot" in Syria, "lie in the bed she made" and "have her baby taken away."

I'm aware she's no longer 15, but she is definitely still the age when most of MN wouldn't even choose to charge her room & board, let alone force her to wear the extreme consequences of the misguided decisions made by a 15 year old child.

Reports now say that she ‘enjoyed her time’ in Syria and it ‘made her stronger’. I’m beginning to suspect she is more than a bit simple.

Puzzledandpissedoff, Oh I do agree that some do use it as an excuse for their own violence. The research does show however that that is not the norm. It is very very complex issue, I just think normally the reason give is that they "hate us and our way of life", and no context is provided or people don't look at any of the factors that can lead to a situation like this occurring.

Juells, I do think think some groups in the world haven't caught up to the 21st century way of being/thinking that Westerners have, that's my personal opinion and I haven't researched it. Aren't we lucky to have been raised with the 21st century modern mindset?

but seeing as you mentioned Algeria, are you aware of Frances history there? and why Paris is a hotbed for terrorists? I read this article back when the Charlie Hebdo attacks happened and there's a fabulous little line in the article that says "Maybe all newspaper and television reports should carry a “history corner”, a little reminder that nothing – absolutely zilch – happens without a past.".

Such a simple little thing but yet ignored by so many!
www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/charlie-hebdo-paris-attack-brothers-campaign-of-terror-can-be-traced-back-to-algeria-in-1954-9969184.html

She has now given an interview being shown on sky news.
Slightly chillinly given she's just given birth, she appears almost empty of emotion.
I want to feel sympathy for her so much because I do think she was a naive 15 year old who made a poor choice. But all I see is a young woman who has decided that life in the camp is pretty crap and she wants out of there.
Anyone else seen the interview?

She wants her life back in Syria but since that isn’t going to happen, fancies coming back to the uk where she feels that she will be free and can do what she likes. Not Saudi or Pakistan then?

I’m sure she had a super time out there (beheadings, crucifixions and slavery/rape aside). She would have had a power there that she wouldn’t have had elsewhere because her husband was a fighter, and so would have been the ‘elite’ class. Here she was just a little nobody.

To paraphrase our esteemed leader ( 🤪), “nothing has changed”. Unless and until this woman is able to present herself and now her child at a British consulate, our government is under no obligation to offer assistance. If she does so, due process should be meticulously followed to the letter of the law. Should officials or service personnel risk their own lives to venture into that hostile environment and bring her out?, absolutely not. Her family and other sympathisers have, as I understand it, been calling for just that to be set in train. Are they personally volunteering? No? Thought not.

There is a legitimate reason for consulate assistance not to be offered, they have no jurisdiction in the camps.
However, in her interview she stated she had been in contact with her family because a previous journalist had given her use of his phone.
Wouldn't the journalist who interviewed her this morning have made the same offer? She has the opportunity to request consular assistance.
As much as I want to feel for this young girl I think her interview with sky has made that more difficult, sadly.