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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think everyone saying Shamima Begum should rot in Syria have completely overlooked the fact that she is pregnant

999 replies

StepAwayFromGoogle · 14/02/2019 13:39

Just that really. She did a terrible thing going to Syria to marry an ISIS fighter. But she was only 15 and probably incredibly naive. She has already lost two children, one as a complication of malnutrition. And the child she is pregnant with has done nothing wrong. Surely we shouldn't leave him or her there to die too?

OP posts:
Zofloramummy · 15/02/2019 22:14

Ships not shops!

user1481840227 · 15/02/2019 22:41

She is a British citizen. Not a Syrian citizen. Why should Syria be stuck with her? Syria is not the same as the so called Islamic state don't forget.

user1479305498 · 15/02/2019 22:48

Feel very sorry for the children in this case-- her, hope she rots in hell

Bumbelinadance · 15/02/2019 23:16

I really wouldn’t take what this journalist has reported as the truth
My opinion ( actually my own experience if I am honest ) is they have a marvellous ability to put words in ones mouth ..the journalist has a ( sleazy in my view ) job to do and portraying her as repentant isn’t going to sell papers .

Fact is we have no idea of the truth yet. Just the words of a journalist who flew out to a refugee camp and probably stayed in the nearest 5 star hotel
She was a stupid impressionable 15 year old at the time ....2 years older than my own stupid impressionable Ds who knows everything and “ hates me “ and has some pretty alarming ideas at times .
She is now a heavily pregnant 19 year old.
Isis is beyond horrific , she was incredibly lucky to get out
Imagine if you were her mum and dad , that baby’s grandparents ?.

By all means she must be watched and monitored . Closely . Her choice to wear or not wear hijab is irrelevant and I have read some extremely ignorant and islamophobic comments in regards to this , which are unhelpful in my view and cloud this incredibly important matter .

dietcokemegafan · 15/02/2019 23:20

@Bumbelinadance I've listened to the interview. There's fuck all regret there.

Bumbelinadance · 15/02/2019 23:30

Diet
I confess I have read it but not listened
I shall seek to now
Thankyou

HollySwift · 15/02/2019 23:34

I couldn’t give less fucks if I tried. She was 15, not 5. She knew precisely what she was doing.

Stay the fuck there and enjoy your caliphate.

C8H10N4O2 · 15/02/2019 23:45

It's offensive to compare real grooming victims like the poor young girls in Rotherham to her

Could you explain why being groomed into prostitution as a young teen is different from being groomed into a cult as a young teen?

ShadyLady53 · 16/02/2019 00:18

Half my family is Muslim and we don’t want her or any other IS scum re-entering this country. They gave up the right to call themselves British when they left this country to be part of heinously evil acts on innocent people. Pregnant or not, she made her bed and now she can lie in it. She’s responsible for the death of her children, no one else. I hope this unborn child is raised by genuinely good people who do not allow him or her to have the same ideology as the parents.

Gennz18 · 16/02/2019 01:58

DH and I were debating this last night. She comes across as pretty unrepentant, and her views as depicted on the audio I heard are repugnant, but if she is a British citizen surely she has the right to return if she can get herself back to the UK? And the UK has the right to charge her with whatever crimes they think she may have committed when she arrives on UK soil.

Also - surely her unborn child is a British citizen by descent and as has the right to return “home” as it were?

I was holding my 8 month old DD while watching the news and couldn’t help but feel very sad for her unborn baby and for the two who died as a result of her terrible decision to go - and for her too, despite her vile and idiotic views.

If she was allowed home I wonder if there might be a chance for redemption - surely any mother would feel grateful for being shown the kind of mercy that saves your baby’s life? There would be no better way to demonstrate why Britain, as a civilised state with rights and freedoms for its citizens, is so vastly superior to the caliphate. (That said if I was a relative of one of the murdered aid workers I would not feel so forgiving, and fair enough too.)

user1481840227 · 16/02/2019 02:03

Gennz, yes it is against international law to strip someone of their citizenship and leave them stateless! They would have to let her back in if she got herself back.

Gennz18 · 16/02/2019 02:08

Yes - and quite apart from that her blameless child is a British citizen too.

Those rights are what separates what we think of as civilised Western nations from the likes of IS - human rights attach to everyone, even those whose views and behaviour are utterly abhorrent.

ReflectentMonatomism · 16/02/2019 04:52

Could you explain why being groomed into prostitution as a young teen is different from being groomed into a cult as a young teen?

In this case, the difference is that she sought out the groomers who previously had no, and no means to get, contact with her. There is a significant difference between "I was in a chip shop and someone told me that I should come to a party, after which they parked outside my house and threatened my family" and "after extensive searching I managed to get hold of someone on Twitter who told me stuff".

The survivors in Rochdale, Rotherham and elsewhere did not seek out harm, it found them. Even if you accept that in this case she is a victim (I don't) she is a victim who actively sought out distant trouble.

Kokeshi123 · 16/02/2019 05:44

So if your concern is for the child OP, perhaps she should give birth in a British military hospital, the child be taken into care, and she be returned to the camp.

Yup, this.

DinosApple · 16/02/2019 07:44

I have to say I am with the government on this. She cannot be made stateless anyway.

If she wants to return, it must be under her own steam, and no risking others lives to rescue her. Then she will face the due process of the law.

I would hope that her child would be immediately removed, and have no contact with her or her family.

It would be the only chance for the child to grow up without knowing the terrible attrocities its parents went to Syria to carry out and supported. And no one around that child should be able to glorify those actions!

The woman may have been groomed, but she is incredibly dangerous and will be a magnet for extremists once she's returned. She is also unrepentant of her actions, and the actions of IS.

The problem with just accepting the child back to this country is and leaving the mother in the camp is a) it wouldn't happen and b) what about her next baby, and her next, and her next?

StopLazyJournosCopyingContent · 16/02/2019 08:41

I believe it was her father, Hussen Abase, who blamed the police when she left - but it then transpired he’d been burning the British flag and had taken her to extremist marches from the age of about 13?

If brought up by her or her family, there has to be a higher than normal chance of the child also being radicalised if the grandparents also have views like that, surely?

I feel very sorry for the innocent baby, but I also have innocent children of my own, as do millions of other children, and I don’t want them to be put at (even more) risk by bringing people back here when they are clearly going to be a security concern.

The issue of how to keep an eye on all these people who’ve been in places like that, or what we do when all the people who have been sent to prison for terrorist activity are released in 5-10 years is so complicated.

Snowmaggedon · 16/02/2019 09:19

Man on BBC news... he said he read what Isis were doing and he was inspired too Go and fight it...he said she sought out the literature....she sought it out, could see the same atrocities occuring as we all could and she's agreed and dad turns out too be extremist too...is it surprising.... arrest her put her on Trial.. international trial... adopt baby the moment it's born.

Snowmaggedon · 16/02/2019 09:23

I saw newspaper article a few years ago (broadsheet) linking the pattern of hate preachers....where they spoke, who had been present at speeches and who had gone into commit Terror.

Clear links. this was before all the mass Terror we have seen....this was the ground work year's when the west innocently allowed free speech.

flirtygirl · 16/02/2019 09:30

She was groomed and naive but she should be allowed back in a safe way as she has not changed her thinking. If they do bring her back, she needs to be arrested and sentenced and then have mandatory counselling and deprogramming. Like they do for people who leave cults. Because that is what isis is, it's a cult and a terrorist organisation.

Romanov · 16/02/2019 09:31

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2326645-Aibu-to-think-the-parents-of-the-Syria-girls-need-to-take-a-bit-more-responsibility?

I was looking for this thread, and found the linked one from 2015

heartshapedknob · 16/02/2019 09:47

Content I thought that too but it was actually Amira Abase’s father who was photographed at a rally (Abase Hussen.)

It could be argued that by choosing to become a member of a proscribed organisation, who themselves granted her citizenship of the Daesh caliphate, that she voluntarily surrendered her British citizenship.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 16/02/2019 09:51

... I wonder if there might be a chance for redemption - surely any mother would feel grateful for being shown the kind of mercy that saves your baby’s life? There would be no better way to demonstrate why Britain, as a civilised state with rights and freedoms for its citizens, is so vastly superior to the caliphate

Thing is, you're coming at this from the standpoint of a reasonable person and Shamima, and all those like her, simply aren't. I'm trying to find a scholarly piece I read and will probably make a hash of explaining the main points, but the gist was this:

The hatred seething among terrorists isn't the result of something done by others - the point is that the hatred comes first and everything else is retrospective justification. Because of this there's nothing at all the west can do, short of actual self-destruction, which could even begin to mollify them - the "no point in negotiating with terrorists", if you like

As I said, I'm probably putting it badly and missing important bits out ... I'll go on trying to find it

ReflectentMonatomism · 16/02/2019 09:55

I thought that too but it was actually Amira Abase’s father who was photographed at a rally

Has any member of any of these rotten families ever been heard admitting that they did something of their own volition? He went to extremist rallies because he was tricked and didn't understand what was happening. His wife went to extremist rallies because he was tricked, etc. Their daughter went to Syria ditto. No agency, no thought, no insight. It's all "a big boy did it and ran away". I get they're semi-literate and ill-educated, but do they really believe that the answer to everything is In shāʾa llāh and therefore there is nothing they can do to help themselves?

BartholinsSister · 16/02/2019 10:01

I wonder what her beloved ISIS policy is on people who betray them and then wish to return.

Letthemysterybe · 16/02/2019 10:03

I think she it’s ridiculous that she wants to return to this country. But she is British and is entitled to return. Yes she has done bad things, but we don’t deport criminals to Australia anymore, we deal with them here. She’s British and therefore she is our problem to deal with.

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