To think a Marxist society would be an improvement

[Downtroddenhousingass]

Lots of people are so anti corbyn but there are many forms of Marxism and many could be far better than the system we have now imo.

Obviously corbyn isn't looking to replicate venezuela, that's been horrendously managed for a long time and was always going to end badly

Extremist bullshit that the revolutionary Marxist policies in France and the Scandinavian countries is working

More talking of Stalin the mobster as a reason why our society can't take a different direction

The Star Trek economy only works because all necessary tasks are automated and the industrial infrastructure is considered to be held in common.

That, and the fact that they have replicators (from TNG anyway - not sure about the original series) which can replicate just about anything they need, so most manufacturing is completely redundant.

Pavlik Morozov was actually murdered by his family. The whole informing thing was very likely made up.

Also holodecks.

Also transporters, and scanners so they can instantly scan an entire planet to see where materials they need are, without having to waste time and resources looking for oil, metal etc. Not that they need much materials as long as the replicators have what they need.

Ah yes. Star Trek. My go to resource on socioeconomic matters.

Yeah, you'd need to be a few dilithium crystals short of a warp core to think that Star Trek had any relevance besides taking the piss in a discussion about current economic policy.

Marxism and socialism only works when the worker has value. In 30 years time we’ll all just be waiting for Jeff Bezos to give us our universal income.

I studied Marx at university and found his economic analysis really interesting but, being only a human, living in another age, he did not include finance in his analysis. Banks are nowadays the rulers of the world and Marxism alone will not give us the key for how to deal with them.

What people don't seem to understand is the system we currently have is very far from what TRUE capitalism is supposed to be.

Marxism is probably better than sex-pest-Cobyn in any form.

Whether Marxism or Corbyn are worst could be an interesting discussion.

Morozov was actually murdered by his family. The whole informing thing was very likely made up.

Recent research suggests he wasn’t murdered by the family. The informer bit was true though.

Hard to say what really happened, but a workers paradise that relies on his children informing on their parents sounds more than a bit dodgy.

FuzzyShadowChatter

Being critical of capitalism doesn't mean supporting Marxism of any type. One can be very critical of both. There are more options and new ideas not even considered yet, and that's what we need. Ideas for our times and needs, not something dreamed up in the 1800s by people I wouldn't exactly say were any sort of people most would want in power.

This

Whatever we have now is so clearly not working, we need to be open to change. No doubt some are hoping that brexit will deliver that change and be disappointed when they realise it won't.

Op, the impression I get from your posts leads me to think that you don't know as much about Marxism as you think you do. You say that there are many variants of Marxism and that is true. When pressed for information on what variant are you referring to, you've answered revolutionary Marxism. Revolutionary Socialism believes that the proletariat would have to overthrow the ruling class to create a revolution and usher in socialism to replace capitalism. Karl Marx believed in this and predicted this would inevitably happen. But I don't think that you have properly answered the question nor clearly defined what variant of Marxism are you advocating. What is your understanding of the form of Marxism you believe in? What are the main specific characteristics of this branch of Marxism? If embraced by society at large what are the specific benefits you allude to; how are they achieved exactly? How will every aspect of society be impacted? What are the potential problems that could arise and how will they be remedied? Have you given as much thought to this Marxism you have embraced or have you simply jumped on a train without knowing where it is going?

We don't need extremes of anything. Our current model of unfettered capitalism is as extreme as that gets and with Brexit it's being pushed even further, we will be losing workers rights and human rights legislation if the tories get their way.

Socialism in East Germany was so popular that they had to build a wall with an adjoining death strip and turrets to keep out the masses fleeing capitalism in the West. Oh, hang on, it was the other way round!

There are many forms of socialism. East Germany's government was based on the Soviet Union.
That's not what Corbyn is doing.

Corbyn’s ideologies aren’t Marxist, they’re Keynesian.
Anyway, any government that wants to exert more control will lead to more oppression.
Our system here isn’t bad at all, it’s just inadequately managed. Some things could really do with changing, but it doesn’t need a huge overhaul.
For example: Close tax evading loopholes for corporations & force them to pay their tax. Make business education & innovation mandatory in the last 2 years of high school. Stop rewarding large companies and penalising small ones. The more small to medium sized business, the higher it will drive the wages up for those services, whilst driving prices for the products down to keep them competitive. The more innovation on this country, the more products to sell overseas.
However, as a country we’re going to be in a bit of a pickle no matter what we do, our birth rate isn’t high enough to replace us, however with the rate of net immigration & the ageing population we are heading for disaster.

What I take from 1984 is how thoroughly people are manipulated by propaganda.

I spent a little bit of time in Poland and Slovakia last summer. The people were very decent and honest and I was particularly struck with how pleasant Slovakia seemed and how cheery everyone was (disclaimer, I know nothing at all about Slovakia or its history.

But it got me thinking, if you ran your country under a system where a small number of people had it really good at the expense of the majority (capitalism) and the neighbouring country had a system where wealth was much more equally distributed (communism) well then you’d do your utmost to slag off the neighbouring country wouldn’t you?

All this stuff we are aware of now about fake news and propaganda, it makes me wonder if life in the soviet bloc was really as bad as we were led to believe. What if we in the West have all been sold a massive lie to keep us slaving for the elite?

Life in the soviet bloc was as bad as we are lead to believe. I lived and worked in it.
Don't be manipulated by extremists who suggest it wasn't. They see you as a sucker.
Centrist democratic capitalist countries are, to paraphrase Churchill, the most terrible system of government and society APART FROM ALL THE OTHERS (caps for emphasis not shoutiness).

Marxism : an ideology so successful it managed to impoverish a whole country full of Germans.

Oh, just oh 😱

First your politicians can't negotiate a Brexit deal, they themselves are willing to support. And now you think a Marxist society (always dictatorships) sounds great.

Danish socialism isn't great, but we are not Marxists 🤣.

Im not saying communism was a good system at all, but its not rare to find older people who are nostalgic for it. 'Yugostalgia' is a whole industry. They commonly say they miss the state support and feeling like they and their country was part of something big. No idea if they mean it though, I suspect they might change their mind if they were really given the chance to go back.

I doubt those in this country who are losing their homes or relying on foodbanks or can't find affordable accommodation think Capitalism is that brilliant.
What I do find is those earning good salaries and are doing ok don't believe people in this country are in that situation, or its their own stupid fault or just don't give a shit if they are.

@Limensoda ditto those who are on zero hour contracts unable to get any hours from their bosses and being sanctioned for it under UC as they don't have enough hours, also those with disabilities who have had their PIP or ESA cut because of ATOS or Capita targets imposed by the government. What about those who have had life saving operations cancelled for the third time because the hospital is on black alert, or the family who were unable to get meds for their disabled child because they were 'under virgin care, not the NHS' FFS.

Those who think the system as it currently stands are very much in the 'I'm alright Jack, pull the ladder up' group. What those people don't realise is that these things can happen to anyone.

@BishopBrennansArse

I agree.

These systems often look good on paper, but then people get in the way and people are horrific.

Read Animal Farm.