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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think a Marxist society would be an improvement

243 replies

Downtroddenhousingass · 12/02/2019 09:06

Lots of people are so anti corbyn but there are many forms of Marxism and many could be far better than the system we have now imo.

Obviously corbyn isn't looking to replicate venezuela, that's been horrendously managed for a long time and was always going to end badly

OP posts:
Whiney123 · 12/02/2019 17:16

Theriverisacomfort

Rich socialists? Ah but they have it best of all don’t they - the feeling of the moral high ground but bet your bottom dollar that come the revolution they will be the ones driving on the motorway lanes reserved for the politically pure...

scaryteacher · 12/02/2019 17:18

stepladders007 Humour me, but can you see parallels with the Government in 1984 and the EU - or is that just me? Never mind the EU - although I agree - can't you just see the parallels with society today in the UK? Have you read Ben Elton's 'Blind Faith'. I read that and shuddered 10 years ago, and look where we are now - well on the way to what he portrayed.

DGRossetti · 12/02/2019 17:22

But is communism the same as socialism the same as Marxism ? And if not, what's the difference ? Did the USSR ever claim to be a Marxist state ?

ChardonnaysPrettySister · 12/02/2019 17:25

He wants a society based on gentle, caring values where greed is shunned.

Pass the unicorn.

Whiney123 · 12/02/2019 17:25

Dgrossetti

It doesn’t matter - capitalism remains the least worst option

Original poster
Downtroddenhousingass · 12/02/2019 17:27

capitalism remains the least worst option

According to whom?

Anyway it isn't binary. You can hardly call the UK pure capitalist as so many banks received state funding.

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Raspberry88 · 12/02/2019 17:28

Bizarre post Raspberry88, not everyone is paid the same it's about who owns the means to production. You don't really understand it.

No, I do understand it, it was a direct response to jemihap.

TheRiverIsAComfort

Yes, I do think they would. Of course they would. They're politicians. I've met a good few women who call themselves socialist feminists who were happy to turn their backs on women's issues when they clashed with 'the cause.'

In any event, my opinion reains unchanged. he wants an equal society-a society where one is not bound by gender, class , race or sexuality. He wants a society based on gentle, caring values where greed is shunned.

What does that mean? Really, how would that work? And are you sure that's what he wants and he isn't just a professional agitator.

DGRossetti · 12/02/2019 17:31

It doesn’t matter - capitalism remains the least worst option

When we have a capitalist country to observe, we can see if that's true. In the meantime, back to what is Marxism ?

Patroclus · 12/02/2019 17:32

Socialism is the big category, of which Communism and marxism are a particularly extreme subset of.

Whiney123 · 12/02/2019 17:34

What is Marxism? Who cares - it’s a dead ideology

Go to America - I understand they may know something about capitalism

DGRossetti · 12/02/2019 17:35

Patroclus

Tx - socialism being the workers owning the means of production ?

Original poster
Downtroddenhousingass · 12/02/2019 17:36

Communism and marxism are a particularly extreme subset of.

Only classical Marxism.

There are many different forms of Marxism although most people just assume it's the same as stalinism or chavism. 🤦‍♀️

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Patroclus · 12/02/2019 17:37

The USSR was supposedly Marxist-Leninist.

Before Lenin introdued his New Economic Policy (NEP) which allowed limited private enterprise to fund his civil war fight it could be strongly argued it was marxist. Afterwards im not so sure.

As for the violence in these political projects, thats all the choice of humans- it isnt completely vital to the ideaology (not that I agree with it anyway). Stalin used so much violence purely because he was a paranoid gangster.

DGRossetti · 12/02/2019 17:38

Go to America - I understand they may know something about capitalism

Not really. They've fucked up the playing field for business as much as the UK ... I'm with P.J. O'Rourke on that one ...

Patroclus · 12/02/2019 17:39

All Marxism depends on the 'dictatorship of the proletariat'. However you interpret that it is extreme.

DGRossetti · 12/02/2019 17:39

My understanding of Marx (painful read for History) was that the whole world would need to be socialist for it to work. Which was part of the reason the USSR was so ... keen to promote it abroad.

Acopyofacopy · 12/02/2019 17:41

You are very, very lucky to not have lived anywhere in the Eastern bloc when the Iron Curtain was still up.
It was beyond shit, that’s why the whole system collapsed.

If that twat ever gets into power I will leave the country. You are absolutely deluded, flirting with Marxism is not woke, it’s fucking stupid.

SileneOliveira · 12/02/2019 17:44

hahahahhahaha.

No.

Back on your corner selling Socialist Worker, OP.

DGRossetti · 12/02/2019 17:46

You are very, very lucky to not have lived anywhere in the Eastern bloc when the Iron Curtain was still up

My DF had a Polish chap working for him who was sneaking out of Poland in 1989 (got a visa to "learn English") - it sounded grim.

ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 12/02/2019 17:48

There are many different forms of Marxism

Any chance you could outline the kind of thing you have in mind? I don’t know a huge deal about Marxism

Original poster
Downtroddenhousingass · 12/02/2019 17:49

dictatorship of the proletariat was only ever a short term thing, a couple of months, in classical Marxism.

Like anarchy (which is very successful for the company my brother works for) people would only have power for a short time and it's shared.

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Patroclus · 12/02/2019 17:50

This is a suprisingly good and simple article n the differences.

www.huffingtonpost.com/dan-arel/5-ways-democratic-sociali_b_8876476.html?guccounter=1

It doesnt just mean workers owning the mean of production really. Socialism can be as much as wanting to raise the minimum wage. I've always thought a better definition would be -In favour of a system which distributes wealth more fairly.

The whole 'owning the means of production' is very much stuck in the era of marx and industrial revolution. The main problem I have with marxists is that they seem unwilling to evolve pass that point

DGRossetti · 12/02/2019 17:53

You see I've always liked the mantra: From each according to their ability to each according to their needs but I guess I'm a bit of an old hippie ...

Patroclus · 12/02/2019 17:55

Im not sure Marx ever stated it would last a few weeks. Marx's vision was to change the behaviour of society through preventing greed and abolishing class to make it so a person default desires wernt based in wealth. How long would this take? after that the intention was for the state to 'melt away' from communism to 'true socialism'. Far too utopian.

Original poster
Downtroddenhousingass · 12/02/2019 17:55

The Marx era is classical Marxism that no one is advocating.

Social democracy is a form of revolionist Marxism imo but involves capatalist elements.

I agree most people don't understand it, as shown here by many.

OP posts: