Over 8s in the changing rooms

[HenweeArcher]

I’ve started swimming just before swimming lessons at my gym recently as it fits in well with the crèche being quiet. I’ve noticed that no matter what day I swim, I can always count at least 2 or 3 boys who are almost undoubtedly over 8 (which is the rule) in the female changing rooms just before lessons. Sometimes they use the separate cubicles (there are a couple in the corners) to change themselves so are more than capable of changing alone! I’m aware that some boys might need extra support for whatever reason but I fail to believe that a handful every day at a small health club do.

AIBU to mention it to management? It doesn’t necessarily affect me a great deal as I’m fairly relaxed about nudity and don’t see it as my responsibility to all of a sudden start changing under a towel or anything but I do feel it’s unfair for younger girls to be put in this position.

Waspnest

What I find ironic is the mothers of daughters insisting that boys of age 8 and upwards are perfectly capable of navigating changing and organising themselves on their own yet why then are they in the ladies changing rooms with their daughters who are 8? Why aren't they sending their daughters off to get changed without them?

I do agree that all pools should be providing single and mixed sex changing.

The leisure centre here is at fault.

It is absolutely ludicrous to send an 8yo boy to go and get naked alone with adult strangers in a men’s changing room. This is proved beyond doubt by the safeguarding policies that every school in the UK has. Any teacher allowing an 8yo to go unsupervised into a public changing room with strangers to get naked would probably end up sacked. So why is it ok when it’s a mum in that situation instead of a teacher? Of course it isn’t.

Now the other problem is what do you as a mum do with your 8yo boy for changing? Do you take him in the female room with you and then the people in that changing room could be uncomfortable? No you can’t do that either.

So where does that leave you? When my ds was 8, he got changed on the poolside or in the car.

The above was in reply to * who questioned whether my DDs went swimming with a male relative.

“But god forbid those young boys who are being accompanied by an adult female relative be in the same space as the precious young girls because it may make them feel uncomfortable? Do some of you actually realise what you are saying? I agree girls should feel comfortable in their space but the difference is their discomfort is NOT A SAFETY RISK. get a grip the lot of you and stop sexualising little boys.”

peng do you not think 8-9 year old girls who may be going through puberty are allowed to feel self-conscious without being “precious”?

My ds is just 9 and I feel self conscious taking him to his swimming lessons because I also have dd. I try and avoid using the women’s changing room at all costs and will use the disabled changing unfortunately as it’s the only place. I don’t want to send him through the men’s (I know the ladies don’t have cubicles so I doubt the men do).

Unfortunately I signed up for lessons before knowing this! His previous swim school I could send him in to the boys changing room as it was only boys.

If they're with their mums I don't see anything wrong with it. Perhaps they can't be trusted not to mess around on their own or they have anxiety issues. Or the mum is concerned about her 8 year old changing alone with male strangers?

If it bothers you why not use a cubicle or change under a towel? I have one with velcro at the neck, very discreet for the beach/communal changing rooms.

I’m actually really offended by the tone of this thread. My son is not more important than your daughter because he is male. But he is no less important than your daughter just because he is male. My son is not a predator in waiting just because he is male. He’s just a little boy.

Boys too have needs and dangers and puberty. Your daughter is at less harm from my son changing near her than my son is from being sent on his own to the male changing rooms. Men don’t automatically equal danger so for me the danger is more about him being a young 7 year old and me wanting to keep my eyes on him. Just like you want to with your daughter.

we are not e giving our DDs the correct message if we force them to bare all in an environment they are not happy in

Simple...don't force them to bare all.
My children never 'bared all' in a changing room. They were dried without being exposed because they didn't like any stranger seeing them undressed and that included women.
It's very worrying that people see an 8 year old male child as threatening. In fact it's sick.
It's bad enough every male being viewed as a pervert and now it includes 8 year old boys.

Weetbix I would imagine that the mothers are in with their daughters because they are getting changed to go swimming themselves. I don't know of any mother who would go in the changing room with their 8+ DDs if not swimming (most of my friends DDs are in swimming clubs and wouldn't actually be allowed in with them) most are happy to sit with a coffee chatting or on their phones.

nolongersurprised
I get what you are saying but your children are clearly used to going swimming and have done from a young age. Not all children have that experience.

Mine did yet my son still had a moment which resulted in his entire school uniform being stolen.

I often used to swim with the children so was changing with my daughter. She often asked for help with something - sometimes the lockers are difficult to work for example. That's acceptable yet if you are with an opposite sex parent you are just expected to manage and this is coming from parents who are helping their same age children to change (but it just so happens that those children are the same sex)

sophie it’s not about harm though, is it? No one is suggesting that an 8 year old boy will harm an 8 year old girl. But girls, on average mature earlier than boys so it is neither unusual nor medically precocious for an 8 year old girl to have early pubertal changes. Some may not care but many will be conscious about it. Girls need to feel * about their bodies as well as safe, their changing spaces shouldn’t have to be the default spaces for boys as well.

Limensoda so at what age is it acceptable to consider him a threat to young boys?

• comfortable about their bodies as well as safe...

peng do you not think 8-9 year old girls who may be going through puberty are allowed to feel self-conscious without being “precious

@nolongersurprised Of course they are allowed to feel self-conscious. But why is that more important that a child's safety? The solution is unisex facilities for families. But if that is not available than I think it should be based on the risk factor. Yes, it's awful for a girl to be made to feel uncomfortable but there is no risk to her safety because of that discomfort, whereas a parent of a young boy is expected to put their child at risk to make sure girls are comfortable. Does that sound fair to you?

Waspnest
Not always. At our swimming lessons mums were always in helping their daughters change, putting swim caps on, gathering up belongings etc up to a good 10 - 11.

Also see mums helping their older daughters when the mum is swimming too so these mums are not confident enough to let their dds manage alone yet mums of sons just have to?

“It's very worrying that people see an 8 year old male child as threatening. In fact it's sick.
It's bad enough every male being viewed as a pervert and now it includes 8 year old boys.”

my oldest daughter wouldn’t have viewed an 8 year old boy as a pervert or a sexual threat but she wouldn’t have wanted him seeing her naked. All of the 8 year old boys on mumsnet are always unaware of any sex differences but my oldest DD was massively self-conscious and she would have cared a lot.

Well if you're in the changing room anyway and your DD was struggling, I guess you would help but presumably if the DM wasn't around either the DD would get on with it or a friend would help. I think at 10-11 any NT child should be perfectly capable of organising themselves when swimming.

I’ve got girls and would have no problems with there being an 8 or 9 year old boy with his mum in the ladies. I don’t see him as a risk, he’s with his parent.

Yes some 8 or 9 year olds (girl and boy) can be uncomfortable about changing in public but it tends to be just as much about changing in front of the same sex as the opposite sex.

I don’t think it’s sensible or safe to send 8 and 9 year olds of either sex away from their parents to get changed. I remember getting changing wih a friend in the ladies around that age (my dad was with us but changing in the mens) and an older girl came up and slapped us because she thought we were laughing at us. That was pretty minor but my point is that bad things can happen to children on their own even if everyone in the room is the same sex.

The perceived discomfort of some girls and women at changing in front of a male child should not outweigh the safety of that male child.

“Yes, it's awful for a girl to be made to feel uncomfortable but there is no risk to her safety because of that discomfort, whereas a parent of a young boy is expected to put their child at risk to make sure girls are comfortable. Does that sound fair to you?”

And this is how girls and eventually women are socialised to place their own needs before that of boys/men. It’s not fair to girls going through a vulnerable time in their physical and emotional development.

*own needs after boys/men, obviously. Some wishful thinking going on there, obviously.

@nolongersurprised

But in this case the needs of small boys do trump those of the girls.

Limensoda so at what age is it acceptable to consider him a threat to young boys?

Consider who a threat to young boys?

Waspnest

And there's the rub surely.

You say 10 - 11 year olds yet we are talking about 8 year olds so 3 years younger and you are also acknowledging that children might well need some help, but if you are a boy then you just need to manage best way you can?

Maybe pools should ban any parent from going into the changing rooms during lessons from 8 years up?

Wonder how many mums of girls would accept that?

This doesn't need to be a boys vs girls thread. I've no girls but I do remember trying to change without letting people see me and it's awkward and takes away from the fun of it all. I also remember I hate the word precious. Kids can't be precious, they're just trying to do something they enjoy and sometimes are in situations where they don't feel comfortable, but they don't need to have boys around. As someone said above an extra room or two or cubicle or two could solve all of this.

Oh yes and the logisitics are another thing. So all those mums of daughters protesting that the boys should go alone to the men's changing, what do you expect them to do on their own if they struggle or need help/assistance at all? Its easy to say get dressed before leaving the house but what about after when they are wet from swimming and need to change to dry clothes and shower? Or do you expect them to sit in a car/walk out into the cold with soaking wet clothes in order to ensure your daughters don't feel uncomfortable?

my oldest daughter wouldn’t have viewed an 8 year old boy as a pervert or a sexual threat but she wouldn’t have wanted him seeing her naked

But she doesn't have to be naked? I would think most little girls don't want anyone they don't know seeing them naked, not just little boys. Why would anyone want to expose their child's naked body in public anyway?