Over 8s in the changing rooms

[HenweeArcher]

I’ve started swimming just before swimming lessons at my gym recently as it fits in well with the crèche being quiet. I’ve noticed that no matter what day I swim, I can always count at least 2 or 3 boys who are almost undoubtedly over 8 (which is the rule) in the female changing rooms just before lessons. Sometimes they use the separate cubicles (there are a couple in the corners) to change themselves so are more than capable of changing alone! I’m aware that some boys might need extra support for whatever reason but I fail to believe that a handful every day at a small health club do.

AIBU to mention it to management? It doesn’t necessarily affect me a great deal as I’m fairly relaxed about nudity and don’t see it as my responsibility to all of a sudden start changing under a towel or anything but I do feel it’s unfair for younger girls to be put in this position.

PengAly

That's exactly what they expect. A poster above suggested that boys wrap a towel around themselves and get dressed in the car.

@nolongersurprised you obviously aren't reading the posts properly and putting your own agenda first. This has nothing to do with society and sexism. This is about THE SAFETY OF CHILDREN. ffs. Protecting a young boy from possible risk does not equate to men being put first in society above women. Good god.

“But she doesn't have to be naked? I would think most little girls don't want anyone they don't know seeing them naked, not just little boys. Why would anyone want to expose their child's naked body in public anyway?”

Our nearest public swimming pools have cubicle showers then an open changing area. The showers are tiny, most people rinse off then change in the open area. Changing from swimmers into clothes usually involves a period of time of no clothes.

@Weetabixandshreddies Yes, its shocking some of the things women are saying on here. People seem to have forgotten we are supposed to be a society of EQUALITY, but that doesn't really apply to mumsnet logic where it seems like only the need's of young girls' are being considered.

My eight year old son won't come into the female changing room at swimming lessons even if I wanted him to. He doesn't want girls seeing him naked.
My 6 year old would prefer not to, but hasn't quite mastered rinsing his hair so I still need to help and feel it's better for a 6 year old to change with other kids than an adult female to go in the men's where boys are changing.
Luckily the place I take them is small and only those taking lessons or accompanying kids taking lessons use the changing rooms, the other pool we use just has loads of cubicles for anyone to use so it's not a problem there either.

Weetabix It was you who mentioned the 10-11 ys, I'm fine with up to 8 ys being able to go in either changing room. That is the rule in all our local pools (as a pp said it's probably because that's the age at which children can go swimming without adults and the logic is that if you're safe to go swimming without close adult supervision you should be capable of changing on your own). I was fine with DD getting changed on her own for lessons at 8y (as I said in a pp, she was changing on her own from about 7/8 y when she went with her dad, I didn't go with them) can't speak for other mums.

Limensoda at which age is it acceptable for your son to be considered a threat to younger boys?

peng please stop @ing me.

I beg to differ. You think 8 plus year old boys should be changing with girls because it’s safer.

I don’t think 8 plus year old boys should be in females’ spaces because 8 plus year old girls - some of whom will be going through puberty - will be made uncomfortable by this.

I don’t think the default place for boys should be with girls and they should just be expected to accept this and make their own accomodations, such as changing in a toilet or whatever.

What age do you think a boy can safely change with other males?

Boys deserve to be as protected as girls, but not at their expense.

I have both boys and girls and ds changed in the men’s from aged 8. They’re the rules.

Simple solution- have an attendant in the mens.

HalfBlood Yes I think that's a good idea if the facilities can't be changed.

*nolongersurprised" and why am I not allowed to tag you? I'm responding to your posts directed at me... Weird.

Oh so boys should "just get on with it"? Wow. you seem to struggle with the concept of equality and more worrying safeguarding. Of course no age of a child is going to be 100% safe, but preferably 11 upwards, but again even that is a safety risk. But you have already made it clear you don't care about children's safety.

@HalfBloodPrincess yes its a good idea but I highly doubt leisure centres are going to put that in place.

Opps was meant to do nolongersurprised on my 2nd to last post...

It’s about privacy and dignity. Boys over 8 should not be in the ladies changing room. My mum once made me changed at about 8 in front of my male cousins who were actually both younger then me. I was mortified and cried all day, my Nan told her she was out of order. I have never forgiven my mum and have never forgotten.

I have one of each and I know it’s a difficult problem. I did not however prioritise my sons right to a swim over females right to change in a female only changing room. I just avoided those places without individual cubicles.

It’s not about the risk it’s whether they feel comfortable which is important too!!

PengAly Because the poster is on the thread so it's unnecessary. @ ing them sends an email and clogs up their inbox if they haven't got notifications switched off.

Our nearest public swimming pools have cubicle showers then an open changing area. The showers are tiny, most people rinse off then change in the open area. Changing from swimmers into clothes usually involves a period of time of no clothes

I've changed my children in an open area without exposing them. I think people are determined to find problems when there are solutions they ignore.

It’s about privacy and dignity. What an awful experience for you to have had. The problem is when does safety trump privacy and dignity? Unfortunately, certain circumstances meam one issue need to be addressed more so than the other and I think that's what a lot of PPs are struggling to understand. Nobody wants young girls to feel uncomfortable but we need to prioritise safeguarding.

“Oh so boys should "just get on with it"? Wow. you seem to struggle with the concept of equality and more worrying safeguarding. Of course no age of a child is going to be 100% safe, but preferably 11 upwards, but again even that is a safety risk. But you have already made it clear you don't care about children's safety.”

It’s annoying being tagged because then I get an email notification which is unnecessary.

Do you know any 11 year old boys who’d happily change in the girls’ changing room?

Why is the only solution for “equality and safeguarding” (as you say) of boys changing to include them with similarly aged girls, many of whom do not want them there? How does this equally meet the privacy needs of girls?

Limensoda at which age is it acceptable for your son to be considered a threat to younger boys?

Well, not any age because I don't think he ever would be....but...I was talking about him being in a female changing room as a child so I don't understand why you are asking about young boys.
As soon as he was confident enough and aware enough to go into male changing rooms on his own, he did.
If his dad went with us...he always went in men's changing rooms.
If he came with me, it was until age 9. After that, he was with friends and they went in male changing rooms with them.

limen I don’t change my children, they change independently. It’s fairly tricky to get yourself out of swimmers, dry and into clothes without being naked if no one is there to hold a towel around you.

Are you inferring that female children should be able to change without exposing any skin and in doing so make it acceptable for 8 plus year old boys to be in their changing spaces?

Basically:

• it’s not ok for boys to be in with men so they’ll be with you
• you can’t diasgree because EQUALITY
• you should be able to change without “exposing yourself” so it doesn’t matter anyway

*Do you know any 11 year old boys who’d happily change in the girls’ changing room?

Why is the only solution for “equality and safeguarding” (as you say) of boys changing to include them with similarly aged girls, many of whom do not want them there? How does this equally meet the privacy needs of girls?*

I'm referring to 8 year olds.

Well, the other option is for a leisure centre to have family based changing areas but if they don't have that then what should they do? Just build some overnight? Of course that won't happen. That's my point if there is no other option than the safest option is the have them in the female changing area with a parent. In this situation it doesn't meet the privacy of girls but there will be times where a girl's needs are above a boys and in this case its the boys safety that trumps the girls needs. Why do you feel that its OK for children to be put at risk?

I would imagine that an 8 year old who can't change unsupervised wouldn't be allowed by their parent to go swimming unaccompanied would they Waspnest? Likewise I wouldn't allow a 10 year old who couldn't swim to go on their own.

I do think that the answer is at least some family changing provision is the answer.

I'm not demanding that boys be allowed to over ride girls privacy, or vice versa, I'm just flabbergasted at the absolute disregard for considering other children just because they are boys.

It doesn't sit well with me. We could help each other to ensure that everyone's needs were met but there is such an air of" it doesn't affect me so I don't care".

pengaly if enough people kicked up a stink it may well be a workable solution. But once again it’s women having to fight to protect both girls and boys from the few dangerous men that cause this anguish.

Maybe a better solution is to have a restriction on when men can swim - ie they should have an hour when they can use the changing rooms per week. Maybe then they’ll try and do something to address the problem

In this situation it doesn't meet the privacy of girls but there will be times where a girl's needs are above a boys and in this case its the boys safety that trumps the girls needs.

Boys (and girls obvs) are at risk at 13, 14 and older too. But we don't argue that 13yo boys should be in the women's changing rooms to protect them from predators.

Ideally of course there would be sufficient cubicles so that nobody has to get changed in front of anyone else if they don’t want to.

But if there aren’t sufficient cubicles then it does come down to a balance between the risk that some girls or women are embarrassed if changing in front of a boy (who is with his mum) in the ladies, versus the risk that a boy is not safe if changing alone in the gents.

The safety risk has to outweigh the embarrassment risk, surely. It’s not about boys v girls, it’s about two different sorts of risk.