Over 8s in the changing rooms

[HenweeArcher]

I’ve started swimming just before swimming lessons at my gym recently as it fits in well with the crèche being quiet. I’ve noticed that no matter what day I swim, I can always count at least 2 or 3 boys who are almost undoubtedly over 8 (which is the rule) in the female changing rooms just before lessons. Sometimes they use the separate cubicles (there are a couple in the corners) to change themselves so are more than capable of changing alone! I’m aware that some boys might need extra support for whatever reason but I fail to believe that a handful every day at a small health club do.

AIBU to mention it to management? It doesn’t necessarily affect me a great deal as I’m fairly relaxed about nudity and don’t see it as my responsibility to all of a sudden start changing under a towel or anything but I do feel it’s unfair for younger girls to be put in this position.

To the poster suggesting that 8/9 year old girls would like parental support to get changed, my 2 oldest DDs were in squad at that age. They’d have thought I was nuts I’d i was fussing around them.

Personally I couldn’t care less if an 8 plus year old boy watched me getting changed but my daughters would care, a lot. One of them had pubertal changes from 8, she went through a massively self-conscious stage. I don’t think the solution for the problem of where boys aged 8 plus should change should be just to include them in the spaces of similarly aged girls.

Some of those may work but not always practical if there is a younger sibling who also needs to get changed in the ladies as mum can't be in 2 places at the same time.

I really can't imagine telling any child to wrap up in a towel and walk to the car in this weather. Plus what about the privacy of the boy having to get dressed in the car? Would you advocate the same remedy for a dad taking his dd - she can wrap up in a towel and get dressed in the car?

This presupposes there is a car of course and you haven't walked or got the bus there.

Safe with a male relative - not always one.

Maybe swimming lessons need to be at the weekend so that the likelihood of dads being around increases but then that's when pools are busy with paying customers so doubt they would be quick to close for lessons.

What we need is family changing cubicles.

No one, male or female, sees me naked in the changing rooms at the swimming baths. I either use a cubicle or have a towel covering me. I'm not bothered if a mother brings her 8 or 9 year old son in. I wouldn't expect her to send him off to the male changing room on his own.
I think there's a lot of obsessive worrying.

nolongersurprised
Quite sure that many 8 year olds will be very happy, and able, to change unsupervised, especially if they are used to doing it.

Many children also won't be able to do it, especially if they are new to swimming. How will they know what you do if they've never been before?

It’s a difficult one as of course young boys need to be protected, but the privacy of young girls also. I agree that grown women are very unlikely to care. What is the cut off age though? There are many 13 year old boys that are vulnerable and could be targets for predators in communal men’s changing, I am not sure at what point we say they are capable of dealing with such a situation.

As an aside, some of the issue is the boys staring at girls etc. Can we not teach our sons that in a female space, we need to respect their privacy and staring is not appropriate? They can get changed facing the wall and then go out the other side without lingering and staring. They don’t need to sit their for ages gawping. Sometimes it’s how you do something rather than what it is you do.

In any event, if you join an establishment you adhere to the rules. If you don’t like them or there is not proper provision made for your family circumstances, then you should find somewhere else or speak to the management about changing the rules. Simply deciding they don’t apply to you is not acceptable.

There 😳

In any event, if you join an establishment you adhere to the rules. If you don’t like them or there is not proper provision made for your family circumstances, then you should find somewhere else

Plenty of threads moaning with women complaining about unisex toilets and changing rooms in places. I would love to see the reaction of you went on those threads and told them that if they don't like the facilities then go elsewhere.

• moaning should be running

Well, I live in Australia where most 8 year olds where I live can swim like fish so it’s a moot point but I would expect an 8 year old without additional needs to manage to dry themselves and get changed.

And, as mentioned, my early developing 8 year old would have been mortified to have a similarly aged boy in the same changing area. It would have been a huge deal for her. Her body was changing and she was very self-conscious.

Plenty of threads moaning with women complaining about unisex toilets and changing rooms in places. I would love to see the reaction of you went on those threads and told them that if they don't like the facilities then go elsewhere.

It’s not the same at all is it? I didn’t say you can’t complain about it, I said you can’t break the rules by bringing your older son into the changing rooms against the rules just because you feel like it. I don’t see the comparison... how can you possibly break the unisex changing rules?!

It isn't about threat though. It's about young girls and women having the ability to get changed in an all-female space. we are not e giving our DDs the correct message if we force them to bare all in an environment they are not happy in. If they don't want to get changed in front of the boys, they shouldn't have to - irrespective of age.
I am a mum of one of each.

Your answer to there not being changing rooms suitable for your needs is to go elsewhere. I guess if there is no "elsewhere"then the answer is you just can't go.

So if a pool only offers unisex changing and you don't like it, or as on a thread a club only has unisex toilets, and you want single sex facilities is your answer also go elsewhere?

Only I would love to see the reaction if you suggest that.

Of course mums of sons and dads of daughters can complain about the lack of family changing but that won't happen quickly.

Why can't mums of daughters have a little empathy with mums of sons and get together to insist that pools provide facilities for family changing? That suits females who want privacy and also respects the fact that it is wrong to just shrug your shoulders with an "I'm alright Jack". It isn't fair that where there is a lack of facilities that the answer is for boys (or girls with dad) to miss out.

It's not about boys being unable to change unsupervised. My 5 year old can dry and change unsupervised. I put him into a single cubicle, close the door and stand outside whilst he sorts himself out.
They are perfectly capable. That's not the issue. The issue is when there are no individual cubicles and only open changing rooms... I then need to send my very capable child into a room where he is around naked adults whom I do not know or trust; I suddenly don't feel so sure it's a good idea to allow him to change alone.

So if a pool only offers unisex changing and you don't like it, or as on a thread a club only has unisex toilets, and you want single sex facilities is your answer also go elsewhere?

I believe my answer was to complain to management. But ultimately, if you don’t like unisex changing and have complained to management in an attempt to secure provision for the single sex changing then you can look elsewhere. I am not aware of any way you can make them do what you want beyond complaining! As a practical solution, I would of course look elsewhere if I didn’t like it. The alternative would be to constantly suffer something I didn’t like. If there is no alternative then of course your choice becomes to suffer the thing you don’t like or not go at all so that becomes a more difficult choice.

It’s not about individuals having empathy if we are talking about adherent to the roles of the gyms. These are private clubs we are talking about here. If you repeatedly flout the rules, your membership can be terminated. One of the key complaints, however, seems to be that these rules aren’t being enforced.

ChrisjenAvasarala

I think it is both tbh.

Some parents know that their child is able to get changed etc but ate concerned about safety.

Others might think it's safe but that their child isn't able to manage completely independently because children to develop at different rates and it also depends on how familiar they are with going swimming or that particular pool (layouts etc are different if it is a unfamiliar pool).

Pools do need to sort this out though and realise that not all families are single sex or have 2 parents, of different sex, available.

So let me get this straight; it is perfectly acceptable for the mothers of boys here to be upset and angry about people allegedly painting their sons as sex pests whilst also happily tarring the men in the male changing rooms as paedophiles who are just waiting for the chance to molest their sons. Do you not realise what a double standard you are spewing?

You also realise that eventually your sons will grow up and have people refuse to allow their sons near them in the changing rooms because your son might be a peado. I hope however that by that point you will be okay with people painting your son as a sex pest

Oh and if there are cubicles in the changing rooms then perhaps the boy in question should use them rather than expecting the girl to move aside and use it. Radical I know.

And before anyone starts, yes I do have a D'S.

RainbowWaffles

Our pool is a council facility so not a private club. All council tax payers pay for it. Not really right that mums of sons, or dads of daughters, should have to pay membership fees to a private club just to find changing rooms that meet their needs is it?

And it is about empathy if your only reaction is "I don't care what you do but you aren't coming in here" rather than supporting those parents by joining with them to get management to provide some family changing.

I don’t think 8 plus year old boys should be in female changing rooms because my 8 plus year old, similarly aged daughters wouldn’t like it.

PlantsArePeopleToo

I think the issue is that regardless of cubicles PPs don't want boys in the changing rooms.

And my issue is more the practicalities of a young child managing their clothes, locker etc unsupervised. It doesn't affect me anymore because my children are older but I can clearly remember times when they both needed a bit of help, older than even 9 or 10.

nolongersurprised

Does your daughter ever go swimming with a male relative? If so what happens then?

*Our pool is a council facility so not a private club. All council tax payers pay for it. Not really right that mums of sons, or dads of daughters, should have to pay membership fees to a private club just to find changing rooms that meet their needs is it?

And it is about empathy if your only reaction is "I don't care what you do but you aren't coming in here" rather than supporting those parents by joining with them to get management to provide some family changing.*

I don’t disagree with any of that. I have both sexes so I am not siding with the daughter camp here and I firmly believe that provision should be made. I also think this is in the interests of everyone so it isn’t about having a dog in the fight (or son).

The only point I am making is that refusing to adhere to the rules by taking your children in the opposite gender changing room over the stipulated age isn’t the answer. Taking the ‘the rules don’t apply to me’ attitude isn’t helpful. That’s not trying to get the rules changed for everyone’s benefit, it is flouting them for your own.

Well Weetabix, seems you're getting your answers to the FWR thread about liking/disliking men. Apparently even mothers of sons have a great mistrust of unknown men. The irony is that I bet a lot of those same mothers would be horrified to think that when those sons are grown up they will be considered a risk to young boys. At what age that happens, who knows, is it when they're 14? 18? 30? The double standards drive me mad.

FWIW, above the age of about 3 y, DH always took DD swimming (because I hate it) and up until she was about 7 she went into the mens' changing with him. Above that she went on her own into the ladies. I do not understand how any woman can agree with this casual breaking down of girls boundaries.

My solution would be to have female changing, male changing and an area for family/unisex changing.

I have 3 daughters (and a son). All 3 daughters aged 12, 10 and six are completely independent with changing. When my 3rd DD was 4-5 years old she sometimes forgot a few stray items, DH (who usually does her swimming) would check before tjey went and then send her back in to retrieve them. My 10 year old swims 5 times/week, DH picks her up from the school pool for most of those sessions. She almost always manages her swimmers, school bag and instrument etc. Last week she left her goggles behind and so picked them before the next session; it certainly wasn’t a disaster that necessitated full parental hovering to ensure it didn’t happen again.

We have a son as well. He is 5 and if he swims with me he prefers to change at home so he doesn’t go into the girls’ changing rooms with his sister.