Over 8s in the changing rooms

[HenweeArcher]

I’ve started swimming just before swimming lessons at my gym recently as it fits in well with the crèche being quiet. I’ve noticed that no matter what day I swim, I can always count at least 2 or 3 boys who are almost undoubtedly over 8 (which is the rule) in the female changing rooms just before lessons. Sometimes they use the separate cubicles (there are a couple in the corners) to change themselves so are more than capable of changing alone! I’m aware that some boys might need extra support for whatever reason but I fail to believe that a handful every day at a small health club do.

AIBU to mention it to management? It doesn’t necessarily affect me a great deal as I’m fairly relaxed about nudity and don’t see it as my responsibility to all of a sudden start changing under a towel or anything but I do feel it’s unfair for younger girls to be put in this position.

@HenweeArcher
Young boys, just like girls, often still want their mums help and support. I’m sure plenty of 8/9 year old girls would want mum to go into the changing room with them rather than being sent in alone

What do I think will happen if I let my 8yo go in the male changing rooms?
Risk of sexual assualt: low (but serious)
Risk of child drifting around indefinitely in a state of half-dress with clothes strewn everywhere: high. I can't get in or support of he has difficulties.

It's an unknown environment. I can't assess it. I do know the ladies is a labyrinth with open spaces and cubicals twisting around and can see a child getting disorientated in there. I guess the men's would be similar?

Would I feel comfortable sending my 8yo into an unknown shop with multiple exits and hanging around outside unable to go and check on him? No. And I don't think I'd be unusual about that

Maybe this is naive but what do people think are going to happen to boys in a men's changing room? Do you really think they're pits of peadeophiles waiting to get their hands on your children? No. They are just men going swimming.

What do you think an 8 year old boy is going to do to a grown woman or another child, while in the changing room with his mum or any other woman he may be with?
Yes you are being a bit naive. You do realise that there is no way to know who is a peadeophile, right? They don't walk about wearing a badge so how on earth would you know who is in the changing rooms?

Anotherpidgey this is how i feel. I wouldn't send my almost 8 year old alone as we would probably be waiting 20 mins for him to actually get changed. He would possibly drop his dry clothes all over the wet floor, I think he would struggle with the lockers espically the ones where you put in a code and which often flash red and you need to start again (or change locker !) I wouldn't be able to go in to help him either so would we need to start hunting for staff to go sort out his locker etc

If I had an 8 year old girl I wouldn't send her into the ladies alone either for the same reason (if I wasn't going swimming myself for example)

Children of this age are very much still children !

I am amazed at how many people are against a mother taking her CHILD to get changed with her. The problem is with the attitude of the adults who seem to be sexualising the normal innocent behaviour of young children, the problem is not the children.

^ yes exactly. People are thinking of CHILDREN as sexual predators before they are even capable of sexual acts. What's the solution, throw them into a room with males strangers and risk them being sexually assaulted. It really is madness.

The rules should apply to everyone. They are there for a reason. And yes, the needs of girls are absolutely more important here because this is THEIR space. It is unacceptable to teach girls that they must be silent when their boundaries are violated and that, even though provision has specifically been made for them, they have to slink off to a cubicle or if none is available they can't access the service at all because older boys using THEIR space take priority.

So it's not just that women and girls deserve privacy, men and boys deserve privacy too so you are also arguing for girls going with a male relative to either change alone or don't go too
Yeah there’s a massive concern for dads alone with daughters that if they go to the female changing rooms a random woman will rape or assault them. Totally the same

No one is suggesting that the 9 yo boy is a sexual predator, not one single person. But many posters are pointing out that their 9/10/11 yo girl, who has started puberty and possibly periods, is really embarrassed and uncomfortable to have a similar aged boy in there whilst they're getting totally undressed. Of course they are. And, the boys do stare.
I'm sure some of their mums are sensitive and considerate to the girls feelings, but real life experience has shown that many can't care less.
My solution is unisex different sized floor to ceiling cubicles.
I get that some mothers don't think that their 8yo boy is ready, which is fine, but then they need to be the ones to fund an alternative solution which doesn't involve going in the female private space.

Nobody is saying that boys are sexual predators.

Girls at age 9 can have periods or bras. They rightly do not want 8 or 9 year old boys seeing this. At school boys and girls are separated for PE changing and boys cope fine without an adult woman keeping them on track. They are usually not as helpless as some mums think.

In my experience most mums with "old" boys aren't supervising them properly and it's not uncommon to see them peeking under cubicles while mum changes /deals with younger siblings, staring... This isn't because they are sexual predators but being curious about nudity shouldn't impact females in real life.

It is unacceptable to teach girls that they must be silent when their boundaries are violated and that, even though provision has specifically been made for them, they have to slink off to a cubicle or if none is available they can't access the service at all because older boys using THEIR space take priority.

Nobody is saying boys this at all. People are saying they're worried about the children being in a room with strange men. Everything doesn't have to be spun that males/ parents with male children are superior, we are not saying that, we're saying all children deserve to feel safe. I equally remember being a teen and wouldn't want there to be any chance a bit would be in the same space, but that means something needs to be done to find a space for boys too

This happens the other way round at our swimming. It's in a school so only make/ female changing. Boys over 8 need to be in boys. My dses, 10 and 13 go in there. There are supposed to be no adults of opposite sex in there. I see attire a few mum's going in there to help their precious children, no matter if my 13yo ds (dyspraxic so can't get changed under a towel) feels embarrassed. He often has a long shower till they're all out. It's just a selfish 'the quirks revolves around me and my family' attitude which is prevalent everywhere these days.

Attire=quite, quirks= world

Kids of this age still get changed in the classroom at our school and the teacher is there to hurry them along. They also do not need to make sure they are dry properly or put their clothes in lockers etc. Many of them still manage to come out of school with wrong jumpers or clothes missing on these days so I don't think this proves they could easily change alone at swimming.

We could go round in circles here, so there obviously needs to be a different solution. If single cubicles in not an option because of space, what about 3 x open changing rooms? One male, one female, one children only of any sex accompanied by a parent of any sex, no rule on age, simply that the parent can decide up to what age they accompany their children. Then all the difficulties that have mentioned on this thread could be accommodated. Mother still wanting to be with 10yo boy - no problem, in the children's. Ten year girl wanting privacy - no problem, in the females.

I think it's very unusual for boys and girls to change in the same classroom at 11. Think I read in here that NSPCC recommends y3/4 to be the age where they are split by sex.

what about 3 x open changing rooms?

This is the best solution imo but the third space should be for trans adults too.

Wouldn't life be easier if places where changing clothes is a feature could just provide secure, private, lockable cubicles (with some large enough for a family to fit inside) so that everyone's dignity can be preserved?

If that were to happen, nobody would feel compelled to brand a child a pervert because they're wanting a swim or whatever.

My ds2 has just turned 8. He is autistic, and although he can dress himself (usually) he cannot go anywhere unaccompanied - he is too volatile and is a flight risk. He really loves swimming, and I feel so grateful that the pool we like to use has family sized cubicles.

This thread has reminded me I should probably organise a radar toilet key (he has some continence issues and struggles to toilet independently). It's only a matter of time until we get challenged because he's had to stand in the corner (as far away from the hand driers as possible) and wait for me whilst I go for a piss.

I get that some mothers don't think that their 8yo boy is ready, which is fine, but then they need to be the ones to fund an alternative solution which doesn't involve going in the female private space.

Fund? So parent have to pay for places like this to build extra changing room for young boys?

Stop being silly. Obviously a typo. Find.

I wish that all new gym/leisure centre changing rooms were mixed cubicles to get around this.

Many adults don't like getting changed infront of others either. It would also stop the "banter" in the male changing rooms too.

Communal changing rooms are the reason I've never set foot inside a gym and have been the reason I've done an about-turn in the doorway of a pool changing area. Fucking barbaric.

My local swimming baths has communal changing rooms and I’m glad. I would not let my 8 year old DS change alone in a changing room with strangers.

Yeah there’s a massive concern for dads alone with daughters that if they go to the female changing rooms a random woman will rape or assault them. Totally the same hmm
I wasn't meaning that.

What I meant was that if mums are insisting that young boys have to go into the men's alone in order to protect women and girls privacy, despite many mums on here explaining that their son would find changing, managing lockers etc, then mums also need to accept that if their daughter goes swimming with dad that their daughter will have to go into the ladies on her own and manage the same with possibly not being able to get changed without dropping clothes on floor, not being able to manage lockers etc.

I think mums of daughters are taking this stance because they are in the best position. They can demand this because they aren't affected.

I think if their daughter came back from swimming with dad upset that they'd lost a shoe because they didn't pick it up when they got undressed and put it in a locker, or that they had got locked in a cubicle because the lock was stiff and there was no one to help, or they couldn't find their locker or undo the lock and got panicked - then I think they would be quick to insist that their dd in future went into the mens changing room. I don't think they would be so quick to tell their dd to deal with it or stop going swimming.

My son once had all of his school uniform stolen. All of it including shoes etc. We had gone to swimming lessons straight from school. He went in the mens and I took my dd into the ladies. As I wasn't swimming I couldn't go poolside so sent my dd through to the pool and I went up to the viewing gallery.

What I didn't know was that my son hadn't been able to get the key out of the locker. Rather than move his clothes to another locker (he just had a brain fart and didn't think to do this) he trusted it would be ok, pushed the door too and went swimming. When he came out all of his clothes were gone. Again I was in the ladies helping my dd and when we came out he was distraught in the corridor because he hadn't been able to get me to get help.

It's not just that we are all worried about predators.

These may be the alternatives

• boy arrives with trunks on under trousers. Strips in changing room meets mum at other side or strips at entrance to changing rooms and hands mum clothes. Goes straight through to pool. 8yo can definitely wait out if pool until mum is ready.

• After swimming boy goes through the changing room and meets mum at entrance. Go to toilet to change with mum or leaves in costume and towel then changes in car.

• swimming/swimming lessons to happen at a time when a trusted male adult can accompany. Anecdotally I see quite a lot of Grandads doing this on weekdays.

• research alternative pools.

• Practice changing without an adult keeping them on track. The first time it may be long but should get faster.