Over 8s in the changing rooms

[HenweeArcher]

I’ve started swimming just before swimming lessons at my gym recently as it fits in well with the crèche being quiet. I’ve noticed that no matter what day I swim, I can always count at least 2 or 3 boys who are almost undoubtedly over 8 (which is the rule) in the female changing rooms just before lessons. Sometimes they use the separate cubicles (there are a couple in the corners) to change themselves so are more than capable of changing alone! I’m aware that some boys might need extra support for whatever reason but I fail to believe that a handful every day at a small health club do.

AIBU to mention it to management? It doesn’t necessarily affect me a great deal as I’m fairly relaxed about nudity and don’t see it as my responsibility to all of a sudden start changing under a towel or anything but I do feel it’s unfair for younger girls to be put in this position.

“Answer my question though - if you, or another mum, are with your daughter and she needs help do you refuse and tell her to ask someone else, despite being right there?”
What sort of help is an 8 year old likely to need while getting changed for swimming?

Answer my question though - if you, or another mum, are with your daughter and she needs help do you refuse and tell her to ask someone else, despite being right there?

Not that you were asking me, but if my 7yo asked for help getting changed I would say ‘you’re old enough to do that yourself, keep trying, I’ll help if you get really stuck’. Or I say ‘yes, when I’ve finished getting changed myself’ in the full expectation she’ll have sorted it by then. I said it just now, when she wanted help with football socks that are tight, and she did manage by herself.

Only exception is getting long hair into swimming hats, where I will help because it’s genuinely tricky (but I would do it on the side of the pool for an older boy with long hair, rather than in the changing room).

Answer my question though - if you, or another mum, are with your daughter and she needs help do you refuse and tell her to ask someone else, despite being right there?

No you encourage her to do it by herself.

There are signs everywhere that 8s and overs are expected to use own sex facilities- it’s been this way since I was a child and I’m 38 this year. It’s not like it’s just sprung on you. You teach them from an early age how to cope so that when the time comes they’re prepared.

Personally, my older dc used to argue over who gets to put the £1 in the locker, who gets to wear the wristband etc. They’re 14(ds) and 15(dd) now and since the age of 8/9 they’ve been going swimming by themselves and with their friends (safety in numbers is something I’ve drummed into my son as well as my daughter) as soon as ds was 8 he was using the Male changing rooms.

“There are lots. I can't go back through and quote them all but they are there. Read back and you will see them.”

Well, I’ve read the whole thread and I can remember “lots” of people saying they help their 8 plus year old daughters get changed. As the one who is repetitively claiming that this is widespread, maybe you should prove it?

*cant remember, obviously.

I wouldn’t have a problem with this. They are children.

Birdie woof - there's a bit of a difference between public toilets and changing rooms

I wouldn’t have a problem with this. They are children

But you don’t get to speak for the 100s of girls who would have a problem with it.

“The whole tone is that boys, from age 8 need to manage on their own, need to keep themselves safe around naked strangers, and that if they can't their parents have failed.

Meanwhile, girls should be able to but "I may as well help her as I'm there".

You are assuming that only women take children swimming. And (pardon me from carrying stuff from other threads) I am rather surprised you think that there is any need for boys to be able to “keep themselves safe around naked strangers” as you are so incredulous at the idea that men can be at all dangerous.

But I do get to give my opinion on this thread. I know plenty of very anxious 8 yr olds. I doubt they are in with their mums with the view to intimidating females. I think we could teach both our boys and our girls a bit more about our bodies not being the problem or something to hide, shame or use. But no people are going severely in the other direction of teaching boys that girls need to be protected from them and teaching girls that boys are unsafe. I don’t think we can progress anywhere from here. In my opinion.

“But no people are going severely in the other direction of teaching boys that girls need to be protected from them and teaching girls that boys are unsafe. I don’t think we can progress anywhere from here. In my opinion.”

It’s not just about being safe. It’s about similarly aged girls who may be going through puberty, to feel comfortable and unselfconscious changing in a female only space.

I think we could teach both our boys and our girls a bit more about our bodies not being the problem or something to hide, shame or use.

Go right ahead. This doesn’t mean we should all be in mixed sex spaces. I’m not ashamed of my body, but I do not want to get naked with any other male besides my partner. Most women and girls I know feel the same. You have to respect other people’s personal boundaries and cultures, in addition to being empathetic to those who have been abused.

An 8 year old boy is very young to us, but to an 8 year old girl he could be a classmate and not someone she wants to change her clothes in front of. They may well be at different developmental stages but a female changing room should be her space, and that should be respected. I will be teaching my son this.

I started swimming as a child in the 70s and have never had to strip off in a room - we have always had cubicles. I didn’t exactly live in a metropolis. Why is it so hard to ask pools in 2019 to change their set up? I would have hated being naked in front of a boy but I would also have hated being naked in front of a friend or adult of the same sex.

teaching girls that boys are unsafe

Some are unsafe. Are you aware of the 600 rapes occurring in schools in the UK in one year? Are you aware that boys as young as 4 are assaulting girls in schools? This does not mean every Male is a threat, but it does mean women and girls need to be separated from boys and men when changing, amongst other things. It also means a lot of young girls are suffering harassment and abuse by boys and will not be comfortable changing with them.

Well said nolongersurprised

They may well be at different developmental stages but a female changing room should be her space, and that should be respected. I will be teaching my son this.

What a fantastically sensible parent you are.

It’s not a matter of boys being unsafe. It’s about a girl’s right to have the rules allowing her a woman only space being respected and her not being asked to budge up to make room for boys. And vice versatility.

*versa. Thank you autocorrect.

That’s exactly it. Girls need to know that they’re allowed to say they’re uncomfortable and trust that their voices are heard. And boys need to know that those voices need to be listened to and respected. The earlier the better. And it’s us, as parents, responsibility to ensure this happens.

You are assuming that only women take children swimming. And (pardon me from carrying stuff from other threads) I am rather surprised you think that there is any need for boys to be able to “keep themselves safe around naked strangers” as you are so incredulous at the idea that men can be at all dangerous.

I'm not assuming that only women take children swimming. My overwhelming experience though has been that swimming lessons are typically late afternoon weekdays and that over 90%of the parents are female.

You are raising other threads - on which you said that any parent that doesn't teach their child to stay away from unknown men eg single man in a train carriage, or when asking a stranger on the street for help, are irresponsible.

Yet you see no issue with young boys being naked around unknown men?

Not that you were asking me, but if my 7yo asked for help getting changed I would say ‘you’re old enough to do that yourself, keep trying, I’ll help if you get really stuck’.

Exactly - "keep trying. I'll help if you get really stuck".

At least for swimming lessons I think the answer is not to allow any adults into the changing rooms. So boys in boys, girls in the girls. No adults at all and then all children have to manage best way they can.

My issue really is with the differences in expectations.

If you expect boys to manage alone at 8 yrs old then expect girls to do the same.

It's not right to demand that boys should have to whilst safe in the knowledge that your daughter doesn't have to because you can stay with her.

If you are a mum demanding no boys in the ladies toilet/changing room then respect the opposite. So when your husband takes your daughter out accept that she can't go into the mens and will need to manage on her own in the ladies.

The posters saying that boys should wrap up in a towel and then get dressed in the car, do the same for your daughters.

“So when your husband takes your daughter out accept that she can't go into the mens and will need to manage on her own in the ladies.”

I do. And I think everyone who believes the rule should be adhered to does.

Weetabix my 7 year old daughter gets changed in the ladies when she goes with her Dad. She manages to shower herself and wash her hair and everything shock horror!! No way would I want her going in the men's for both her sake and theirs. I got really annoyed the other day when there was an 11 year old boy in the girls changing not in a cubicle that goes to school with my daughter. Frankly I don't want him telling all his mates he has seen her half naked! Of course a ten year old can get changed alone.

“You are raising other threads - on which you said that any parent that doesn't teach their child to stay away from unknown men eg single man in a train carriage, or when asking a stranger on the street for help, are irresponsible.

Yet you see no issue with young boys being naked around unknown men?”

If you can’t see the difference between a young person travelling alone on public transport late at night and an over 8 year old getting changed at a swimming pool at family swimming time then there is no point in further discussion.