Over 8s in the changing rooms

[HenweeArcher]

I’ve started swimming just before swimming lessons at my gym recently as it fits in well with the crèche being quiet. I’ve noticed that no matter what day I swim, I can always count at least 2 or 3 boys who are almost undoubtedly over 8 (which is the rule) in the female changing rooms just before lessons. Sometimes they use the separate cubicles (there are a couple in the corners) to change themselves so are more than capable of changing alone! I’m aware that some boys might need extra support for whatever reason but I fail to believe that a handful every day at a small health club do.

AIBU to mention it to management? It doesn’t necessarily affect me a great deal as I’m fairly relaxed about nudity and don’t see it as my responsibility to all of a sudden start changing under a towel or anything but I do feel it’s unfair for younger girls to be put in this position.

As an afterthought I remember DM in Primark or Debenhams making me try on something on the shop floor rather than in a changing room as a child and I was utterly mortified, being on the cusp of development. She'd impatiently brush aside my protests with "sure, nobody is looking at you" but I still remember the humiliation I felt. I suspect that a lot of swim mums are of that vein - seeing their growing children as slightly post-toddler and not the increasingly aware pre-pubescent lumps of mortification that we were.

So I'll not be forcing my DS to change in front of people he's not comfortable with nor will I send him in to a male changing area unless his dad is with him. But his place as a pre-pubescent child is not in with women either.

I complained for this very reason. A boy who looked at least 10 or 11 was sitting in the ladies changing room watching all the girls and women getting changed then his mum sent him into a cubicle to change himself. I have friends who won’t take their sons swimming now because they won’t leave them on the boys changing room alone. I just taught my son to Yell if anyone tried to touch him or made him feel uncomfortable. It’s never been an issue.

Glad it's never been an issue for you but that is likely more luck than judgment. You have no idea how your son will actually react when faced with that situation. A young boy was sexually abused in the toilets of my local pool. It happens.

I agree that solutions need to be found that suit everyone but personally I think the harm of sexual abuse is greater than a woman having to use a cubicle! If it's not possible to set up family changing areas due to lack of space you have to weigh up the risks of other solutions.

@MonsterTequila

You've hit the nail on the head there!

“I suspect that a lot of swim mums are of that vein - seeing their growing children as slightly post-toddler and not the increasingly aware pre-pubescent lumps of mortification that we were.”

And the mums of 8 year old boys who are describing them as “ so little” are forgetting that 8 year old girls may well be starting puberty and don’t want boys their own age in their space when they are changing. Some girls may not care about boys who could be in their class at school seeing their changing bodies but many do.

@marymarkle why the fuck not? I ignore rules I don't agree with all the time! I am able to set my own moral compass. And I firmly believe that a child's safety trumps a woman's right to a single sex changing room!

And I do wonder what you think will actually happen to an 8 year old in a changing room with other boys and men, during a family swim session.

@marymarkle

As a previous poster a young boy was raped in her local men's changing room and at mine a boy was sexually abused in the toilets.

This isn't about our sons, it's about the safety of all children boys and girls. 9 is too young to be unsupervised in a single sex changing area. Use a fucking cubicle if you are bothered, it's not hard.

I wonder if they have these same debates in Sweden?!?

“I ignore rules I don't agree with all the time! I am able to set my own moral compass. And I firmly believe that a child's safety trumps a woman's right to a single sex changing room!”

Well, in our local public pool you would be asked to leave. I’ve seen it in action, the pool manager was very steely

And if you think 9 year olds are too young to change unsupervised your child wouldn’t be able to swim with clubs attached to school either, as parents aren’t allowed in the changing rooms.

I think it's a hard one because I wouldn't want my 7/8 year old sons going into a changing room full of adults alone either and I don't think they would be comfortable with it especially if they couldn't see me. However I would make them use a cubicle.

When I was a kid it was situation b with a free for all of women in the men's changing. I stopped the lessons aged 11 due to this, and I'm sure the lessons went up much older (16 rings a bell) but this was nearly 20 years ago...

*Omg, because if you have never been swimming before you might not realise what the procedure is. How to get from changing room to pool. How to work the lockers.

You know, when you are 8. In a place that you've not been before. You might not know what to do.*

Oh come on, there are ways to deal with this. Let’s not create obstacles that are easily overcome. Most children are taken swimming before they are 8, it’s part of your parental duties to teach your child the procedure and how to work a locker to prepare them. If it’s the layout of the men’s that’s the issue, they can go with their father or a male relative/ friend at the weekend if necessary to show them, alternatively you can ask a member of staff on arrival and ask someone to show them as it’s their first time etc.

I totally understand that you might not want them changing alone at 8. I really do. But let’s not make it about the fact that they can’t.

I'd never really thought a whole lot about it...other than that I would often be embarassed that girls would see me naked when my mother brought me into the women's toilettes and change rooms all through my childhood. I'd say all the way on up through to at least 12 years old, possibly 13? I can't say for certain. But what I can say for certain was that it was extremely important that other women and girls didn't feel uncomfortable and so we had a very regimented routine in that we'd always go to the back corner and she'd face her back to the wall, affording herself a potential view of the entire toilets or change room. I, on the other hand, was only allowed to face her, with my back to the room. We'd strip nude and she'd always actively engage me in conversation because we'd have to keep eyes facing eachother because I'd had a tendency to accidentally let my eyes wander which she felt wasn't polite. And I'll say that, any women or even girls who initially took issue with it, very quickly realised that they weren't the ones being put on show, it being myself who was potentially squirming. Eventually, most of the regulars got totally used to it, and comfortable with my demeanor, to the point that that they genuinely didn't care. They'd come up and start chatting whilst we or they were in various stages of undress. If there was anybody new or anybody who mum didn't know for certain was ok with it, she'd snap my focus right back into position, facing her.

My mum had had my older brother take me into the men's change room several years earlier, in which we were both repeatedly molested, with it mostly being me. Nothing horrendous but nonetheless, miles beyond anything acceptable and my mother has never forgiven herself (and I'm nearly 40!)

As an interesting aside... To this day I maintain some odd quirks such as having, by and large, zero qualms if asked or expected to strip off in front of females, whilst I notice a definite unease doing the same in the presence of any men. As well, when I am nude in the presence of women, especially nude women - including my wife! - I tend to simply look straight down at the floor whilst happily carrying on the conversation, unless otherwise prompted to look up. The only person with whom this is not the case is, obviously, my mother, with whom we habitually tend to carry out our old routine. Not that, admittadly, the situation comes up all that often these days lol.

I find the above post abit disturbing on many levels.

It must be sad to think there's a paedophile round every corner! I used to send my son to get changed on his own. Nothing untoward ever happened to him, possibly because there are not gay paedophiles lurking in every male changing area.

If the particular changing room has a age cut off for boys, then it is up to the parents of boys who don’t want to keep the rules to make alternative arrangements. Arrangements which do not involve girls “budging up” to makeroom for them.

why the fuck not? I ignore rules I don't agree with all the time! I am able to set my own moral compass. And I firmly believe that a child's safety trumps a woman's right to a single sex changing room!

You can set your own ‘moral compass’ dear, but unfortunately you live in a society with rules and you shouldn’t be ignoring them. At my local pool, you would be asked to leave too.

I would say something if a 13 (?!) year old boy was in the women’s changing room. My 12 year old dd is very body conscious quite busty already and started her periods at 10. It’s not appropriate sorry. If you have issues with your lads in the men’s I’m sorry about that but don’t push the issue onto us please.

“Set my own moral compass” good luck with that one! Try leaving a shop without paying but explaining to the shop owner “your own moral compass” is fine with that and see where it gets you!

It must be sad to think there's a paedophile round every corner! I used to send my son to get changed on his own. Nothing untoward ever happened to him, possibly because there are not gay paedophiles lurking in every male changing area

On the other hand - I bet there are many mothers on here who would feel very uncomfortable allowing their 8 or 9 year old dds on playdate - if their friend's father was the only adult at home - especially if they didn't know the family well.

playdates

This can go round in circles forever but the fact still remains that a boy over the age of 8 should not be using the female spaces. If the parents aren’t comfortable with that or the child hasn’t been taught basic lessons on how to get dressed, it’s not up to females, who have every right to their same sex space, to pander to that.
There are lots of solutions, as detailed many times on this thread, but bringing the child into the female space is not an option. If your own personal choice is ‘female space or no swimming’ then it’s no swimming. You cannot jeopardise the safety, privacy and dignity of any girl - even if 100 say they don’t mind but 1 says they do.
There is more chance of there being an abused girl in the female room than a paedophile in the men’s. And like I’ve posted previously, and I really wish it was something there was no need for, but we need to be teaching boys to respect girls and women’s rights, and how much they matter, from a very young age.

There's another thread running at the moment - a SD asking what toilet his 7 yr old SD should use. She won't go in alone because she's locked herself in before and is terrified.

Everyone is saying he should take her into the mens. Not 1 person has said the mens is ok for now but as soon as she is 8 she has to go into the ladies on her own and if she can't or won't then she can't go out without a female with her.

Interesting isn't it?

@birdiewoof perhaps 11 year girls would like to use the cubicles in their changing rooms. I can't believe you don't let a 10 yea old boy use the men's loos. My son would have been embarrassed in the ladies at that age. Frankly you are taking mollycoddling to the extreme.8/9 I get the concerns - after 9 boys are perfectly capable of using men's facilities if their mothers would let them!

Not really, it’s been established that it works both ways and that girls shouldn’t be using the men’s facilities either. If I was on the thread my suggestion would be to get the girl to practice going into the ladies on her own, same as i would for boys.
I really do think this is only an issue parents of both sex children can see logically though.
8 is the age up for debate with regards to changing rooms as that's the rules in swimming pools.

Incidentally, are there many posts telling him to take her into the disabled toilets?

I really do think this is only an issue parents of both sex children can see logically though.

I am a parent of both so I can see how much more was expected of my son than my daughter because I was able to go with her and provide help if needed when he just had to muddle through, or not go.

Incidentally, are there many posts telling him to take her into the disabled toilets?wink

A few yep. None taking the tone that is on here though ie she simply should be able to manage by now because mine were doing this by X age, or that mist children can take themselves to the toilet by that age, or that it's not OK for the boys who are in the toilet to be embarrassed by the presence of a girl and that if she can't go into the ladies on her own then she just can't go out with a male relative.

Why is that do you think?