Over 8s in the changing rooms

[HenweeArcher]

I’ve started swimming just before swimming lessons at my gym recently as it fits in well with the crèche being quiet. I’ve noticed that no matter what day I swim, I can always count at least 2 or 3 boys who are almost undoubtedly over 8 (which is the rule) in the female changing rooms just before lessons. Sometimes they use the separate cubicles (there are a couple in the corners) to change themselves so are more than capable of changing alone! I’m aware that some boys might need extra support for whatever reason but I fail to believe that a handful every day at a small health club do.

AIBU to mention it to management? It doesn’t necessarily affect me a great deal as I’m fairly relaxed about nudity and don’t see it as my responsibility to all of a sudden start changing under a towel or anything but I do feel it’s unfair for younger girls to be put in this position.

That's a good point floribunda. I had no idea until recently that the men's changing room at our local pool is totally communal - and the baby facilities in the men's area consists of one changing table. In the women's there's a huge cubicle with a changing table, which I use for my 2yo dd. So basically, we don't have the option of dh taking dd to get showered and changed with him - which also seems to fly in the face of the equality argument: childcare = women only.

nolongersurprised that's what most parents do I've noticed, mine are still only 5 and 1.

As a mum, I'm not comfortable to send him into the men's changing room on his own (different if he's with his dad), though - as a parent, surely you can understand that? Because there is an actual risk, even if small, to my child - beyond embarrassment

But do you not understand that by doing that, you’re telling, not only the girls in the changing room, but also your son, that the privacy and dignity of girls doesn’t matter. That a male being uncomfortable trumps a girl being uncomfortable. This is a place for females only, and you’re flouting that rule.
Why do you think there’s a need for feminism? Because boys are being taught from an early age that their needs come first.

As a mother to both boys and girls I can see both sides, and it’s scary, but it’s isnt up to girls to give up their allocated spaces to placate boys. And it’s a lesson that needs to be taught early.

The one common factor in this thread is that it’s the men in the men’s changing rooms that are the risk - why isn’t something being done about that rather than expecting girls to make accommodations for it?

Very good point too Whatafustercluck its nice to see that some people understand my points about equality

“In the meantime, the boys are learning that there is no safe place for them only places for girls”

Ok peng, how should this be solved?

If we agree that equality, as you call it, doesn’t mean that girls give up their female only space, what could/should be available to boys?

Which ages of boys are missing out on swimming because they’re too old to change with girls but considered too young to change with men? How many boys do you know who are affected and how did their parents sort it out?

All the 8 plus boys I know who swim change in the boys changing rooms at the swim club and the men’s at the public swimming pool, although very few are doing lessons at that age, with most at squad level and this more likely to swim in packs.

isnt up to girls to give up their allocated spaces to placate boys.

At least girls get a safe space. Boy dont. Seems like from an early age it teaches young boys that their needs dont even matter as establishments cant even give them a space. It works both ways.

That a male being uncomfortable trumps a girl being uncomfortable

No, what I've tried to articulate is that a child (my child) being at risk trumps another child's (not my own) discomfort.

I totally agree with the rest of your post and I'm genuinely trying to raise my son to be cognisant of all of these issues. I'm a feminist too (and a much more vociferous one since having my daughter)! But I'm also a parent and if my child is at risk, I'll do what I can to mitigate that risk.

But girls don't get a safe space if this thread is anyting to go by. Their "safe space" is continually invaded by boys with the blessing of their mothers.

How do all these mums of girls feel about sending them into the ladies alone?
Without being able to chase them along, help with changing, washing hair, ensure nothing is left behind.

8 is young to be trusted to go into changing rooms unaccompanied. Boys are particularly immature at 8.

The issue is really communal changing facilities are not suitable in this day and age.

I apologise i didnt bring my spreqdhseet or powerpoint presentation with statistics of all the people ive surveyed and hours of research ive done

Ideally the best thing is either cubicals or unisex areas. But those are not often available so honestly i think the rule of over 8 is too young and it should be moved to over 11. Itd be nice to see the attitude change but i know that wont happen either.

“How do all these mums of girls feel about sending them into the ladies alone?
Without being able to chase them along, help with changing, washing hair, ensure nothing is left behind.”

My daughters have been changing, showering alone in changing rooms since 5 years. As I said upthtead the older two were in squad at 8, they’d have thought I was nuts if i followed them in with a towel and hovered around them

At least girls get a safe space. Boy dont. Seems like from an early age it teaches young boys that their needs dont even matter as establishments cant even give them a space. It works both ways

They have their own space. The Male changing rooms. It’s not girls that are making it unsafe. What should we do about it? That’s what we should be asking.

No, what I've tried to articulate is that a child (my child) being at risk trumps another child's (not my own) discomfort

It really doesn’t. It’s not (or shouldn’t be) one or the other. Both children should be comfortable. If there are no safe places for your son to get changed within his own sex then you need to go somewhere where there is.

'(Men) are of a lesser importance in today's world.'
Quite possibly the most ridiculous thing written on this thread. You cannot seriously say that with a straight face surely?

But girls start puberty at 8. That’s why it’s an 8 rule. No females in the men’s either.

Sexes are segregated on school trips too. I wouldn’t be happy with my dd or ds sharing a bedroom with the opposite sex on a residential either. There’s a reason they do this

Edthebear.
Both my dds have been going in to the female change alone since they were 7. My eldest is the scattier so we had to have a checklist for her to remember to do everything at first. I consider independence really important.

How do all these mums of girls feel about sending them into the ladies alone?

Dd managed just fine alone in the ladies from around age 7. There were "disasters " like wet clothes but she's just fine or locker keys that were difficult to open or close but c'est la vie. Her long hair was washed at home and I had to send her back to look for forgotten stuff sometimes.

A lot of 11 year old girls have periods, 11 year old boys are not going to be allowed in female changing rooms.

Do you actually know any 10/11 year old boys who wouldn’t be mortified by changing with women and girls? Boys of that age can also have a strong sense of their identity and some maybe starting puberty. If the upper age limit of boys in girls’ changerooms was increased would an 11 year old boy even want to go there?

Both children should be comfortable

Both children should be safe. Preferably safe and comfortable.

The Male changing rooms but that's the whole point of this, that isn't a safe space. a little 8 year old boy has to navigate amens changing room on his own, without a parent able to come in with him/ Meanwhile, the parents is made to worry because of the potential risk. Therefore, it isn't a safe space.

How do all these mums of girls feel about sending them into the ladies alone?
Without being able to chase them along, help with changing, washing hair, ensure nothing is left behind.

As I mentioned upthread, I was sent into the ladies alone (with a friend) when my dad took us swimming.
We were perfectly capable of changing ourselves, that wasn’t a problem but we were slapped by an older girl. It could have been worse - at least there were two of us and one of her and it was only a slap. Now imagine an 8 year old boy on his own with a group of older teenagers who decide they want his stuff, or that he has dissed them or whatever and decide to beat him up.

I think we should see the priority as ensuring young children stay with their parents. Everything else comes below that on the list. Female privacy doesn’t have some special status which means it overrides child safety.

I’m a mum of (only) girls by the way. Stop putting us all in one basket please!

I dont think the infantilising of children helps them at all. The suggestion of boys still being in the girls at 11 is absurd. There is post after post on mn of men who can do nothing for themselves; it starts here.

nolongersuprised why do you keep referencing 11 year olds? I've actually said I think the age should be bumped up to 11 and over not being allowed and I only refer to 8 years olds in my posts.

FFS. It’s not about boys (or girls) maybe forgetting their kit if they change alone.

It’s about them possibly being attacked if they are alone with strangers. Even strangers of the same sex can attack, you know.

What age are boys safe in the men's if not at 8?

But why is it up to girls to give up their safety? Why should they? You don’t know who these girls are, if they’ve been through any trauma. You have no idea.
What if by bringing your ds into the girls changing room means that a girl will no longer get changed. Would rather go home than change in front of a boy. How is that equality?
Once again it’s the danger in the men’s changing room that needs to be addressed