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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Over 8s in the changing rooms

999 replies

HenweeArcher · 07/02/2019 20:19

I’ve started swimming just before swimming lessons at my gym recently as it fits in well with the crèche being quiet. I’ve noticed that no matter what day I swim, I can always count at least 2 or 3 boys who are almost undoubtedly over 8 (which is the rule) in the female changing rooms just before lessons. Sometimes they use the separate cubicles (there are a couple in the corners) to change themselves so are more than capable of changing alone! I’m aware that some boys might need extra support for whatever reason but I fail to believe that a handful every day at a small health club do.

AIBU to mention it to management? It doesn’t necessarily affect me a great deal as I’m fairly relaxed about nudity and don’t see it as my responsibility to all of a sudden start changing under a towel or anything but I do feel it’s unfair for younger girls to be put in this position.

OP posts:
nolongersurprised · 08/02/2019 14:17

Equality to me isn’t, “Let’s let boys aged 8 plus enter female changing rooms so that similarly aged girls feel self-conscious”.

In this scenario girls are definitely disadvantaged: they lose their female only changing space.

goldengummybear · 08/02/2019 14:18

Whataclusterfuck- some 8 and 9 year old girls have periods and wear bras. Nobody thinks that your son is getting sexually turned on.

arethereanyleftatall · 08/02/2019 14:18

It's to do with puberty whatafuster I think. Some girls have started puberty at 8. So, they shouldn't have to be naked in the same place as their same aged male class mates.,

MumofTinies · 08/02/2019 14:19

I think what is bothering me so about this is that once you have an age (say 8) you will be looking askance at any boy who seems to be 8+
As the owner of a son who would have easily been mistaken for 8 when 6 (but had the sense and needs of a 6 year old not an 8 year old) I do worry about the dirty looks I would have got.
Round here you can swim without an adult at 8 but I don’t know any parents who sent their dc at that age alone, 10 more common.

I'll probably be in the same position next year when my son will be six. This thread as been a rather sad eye opener into the attitudes towards young boys. I'll continue to take him swimming and he will be coming in with me to change, I won't bundle him into the car half naked (how was that a suggestion on a thread about 'dignity') and I won't be going out of my way to find an alternative venue. Anyone who gives my boy dirty looks will be told to keep thier eyes to themselves.

HalfBloodPrincess · 08/02/2019 14:19

I get the whole female spaces argument and would understand why an adult with a penis would not be welcome in a female space. But children who have not yet reached puberty? I don't understand the outrage. And why 8? Genuine question - why is an 8yo boy suddenly not acceptable but a 7yo is? Is it to do with sexual awareness?

Because 8 is the age when some girls start puberty. It’s for their dignity/privacy. No one else’s. Remember it works both ways.

HalfBloodPrincess · 08/02/2019 14:20

X posted with many

PengAly · 08/02/2019 14:21

peng you keep talking about equality, in this context, with this thread, why do you feel that “the concept of equality has been lost”?

Because I keep seeing over and over again that it has to be one gender or the other. Society should be fighting for equality where both men AND women, boys AND girls are treated equally but that concept always seems lost because mumsnet gets a lot of man hating. This thread is an example of how it has to be the girls feelings over the boys safety. The girls privilege or the boys privilege. I understand its the girls safe space but once again if other options aren't feasible it just seems overly harsh that boys miss out. A lot of women on here quite honestly just don't care, because they are boys and that lack of sympathy is awful. Once again, the idea of them being equal is lost. That is what I meant.

arethereanyleftatall · 08/02/2019 14:24

@Minglemangle
I take it you haven't read the thread, which is actually perfect, as you have demonstrated exactly what the problem is. Your post talks only about your own boys, and what age boys reach puberty, without pausing for thought about the girls in what is supposed to be the girls private space.

nolongersurprised · 08/02/2019 14:25

“I won't bundle him into the car half naked (how was that a suggestion on a thread about 'dignity'”

Does no one in the U.K. do this? It’s ubiquitous in Australia. It’s not “half-naked” - top on, some form of footwear, towel around swimmers. If it’s “undignified” then the majority of Aussie kids, in summer, are probably akin to savages, mine included.

minglemange some healthy boys start puberty at 9. It’s earlier than average but not medically precocious.

Whatafustercluck · 08/02/2019 14:25

Ok, thanks all, then I understand.

But that still leaves a problem for my 8yo child and me. At our local leisure centre the women's changing rooms have cubicles. The men's don't. Ds feels really uncomfortable in the men's and so prefers the women's - because of the cubicles. There are no family changing facilities. I just want to be able to take my son swimming. So what's the answer?

Minglemangle · 08/02/2019 14:27

Ok, I also have a daughter and would’t be concerned if a 9 year old boy was in the changing rooms.

PengAly · 08/02/2019 14:27

Does no one in the U.K. do this? It’s ubiquitous in Australia its a lot colder in the UK than Austraila, surly you know that?

HalfBloodPrincess · 08/02/2019 14:28

I just want to be able to take my son swimming. So what's the answer?

You teach your son that he doesn’t have the choice to go into the female changing rooms anymore so will have to use the facilities designated to his sex. Or use one of the other options given in this thread that doesn’t not include him going into the female changing rooms.

MumofTinies · 08/02/2019 14:30

nolongersurprised in the height of summer maybe but last time I took the kids swimming it was -3 out. The time of night that we go it makes sense to give the boys a shower and get them into thier PJs.

BlingLoving · 08/02/2019 14:30

The thing is that my nearly-8 year old IS old enough to start noticing naked women and girls. Not a sexual way, sure, but certainly, he notices and he might ask me about things. And so I think it's perfectly okay for those women and girls not to want him in their space. Not because (I assume) they think he's a predator, but just because they don't want someone watching them in any form. It's not a criticism of DS. It's about how other people feel. And legitimately so.

arethereanyleftatall · 08/02/2019 14:31

Nolongersurprised.
Ironically, at our swim club, 90% of the kids (7+) do indeed get out of the pool, straight in to their respective sex changing room, straight in to their Toweliing onesies and uggs and straight in to the car. Two minutes tops from last length.
I'm not sure why, but there's for more mollycoddling when the children are less able swimmers and still in the stages lessons.

dickiedavisthunderthighs · 08/02/2019 14:31

When I was 8/9 I was nowhere near puberty, but I would have been horrified to have had a male classmate where I was changing. And I reckon that my male counterpart would feel exactly the same way.
It's nothing to do with sexuality - this age is where we teach children about body autonomy. It's not fair to then expect them to undress in front of each other when they're likely to feel very uncomfortable.
This isn't a sex issue, it's a person issue.

Whatafustercluck · 08/02/2019 14:31

Mingle but I suppose mothers of other 9yo girls, some of whom will be self conscious, would do - and that's the issue.

My 9yo niece has started to develop but is still more than happy to strip off in front of her male cousin for a sleepover or whatever. But some aren't.

nolongersurprised · 08/02/2019 14:31

“I understand its the girls safe space but once again if other options aren't feasible it just seems overly harsh that boys miss out.”

The whole idea of a safe space isn’t that it’s only safe until someone else needs it. Equality would be awesome but at the moment it’s heavily skewed against women in adult life. We are more likely to get beaten, raped, killed by men than the other way round.

It’s important for girls to realise that their changing bodies are recognised as worthy of privacy and that they have female spaces to facilitate that.

nolongersurprised · 08/02/2019 14:40

I’ve never seen anyone go straight into PJs after swimming, not even in winter. It’s funny cos my children are happy to go home is swimmers and a towel but even when they were little they’d have been mortified wearing Pjs out of the house.

Whatafustercluck · 08/02/2019 14:42

You teach your son that he doesn’t have the choice to go into the female changing rooms anymore so will have to use the facilities designated to his sex.

As a mum, I'm not comfortable to send him into the men's changing room on his own (different if he's with his dad), though - as a parent, surely you can understand that? Because there is an actual risk, even if small, to my child - beyond embarrassment.

If the women's has cubicles, which girls and women use for privacy, then I'd probably still take him in with me if his dad wasn't with us. I'd consider this to be a better option that didn't compromise his safety or the feelings of his female peers. I'd probably find a different swimming pool If it were communal changing though (and actually I'm not too happy about having to change in front of anyone - male or female - so wouldn't be using a communal facility anyway).

Family changing areas seems to be the best solution - but in my experience they're few and far between.

PengAly · 08/02/2019 14:42

We are more likely to get beaten, raped, killed by men than the other way round.

Who's making generalised assumptions now? Hmm

In the meantime, the boys are learning that there is no safe place for them only places for girls. How sad and we wonder why the suicide rate in men is so high, probably because from a young age the lessons they learn are that they are of lesser importance in todays world.

Dothehappydance · 08/02/2019 14:44

I am so pleased that all my local pools have changing villages, my DS is 11 and would struggle on his own totally. (Autism)

If they have separate then there needs to be family cubicles somewhere.

floribunda18 · 08/02/2019 14:44

I think leisure clubs need to sort out why men's changing rooms aren't suitable for children to get changed in, rather than women being asked to move over and make room.

PengAly · 08/02/2019 14:46

I think leisure clubs need to sort out why men's changing rooms aren't suitable for children to get changed in, rather than women being asked to move over and make room.

Men's rooms would be suitable if a parent accompanied the boys. Its not just about risk, its also logistics. Some boys under 10 may still need help changing. Unfortunately, it seems like the majority of the time its the mother as the accompanying parent and she cant go in the men's room with her son. That is the issue really