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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Over 8s in the changing rooms

999 replies

HenweeArcher · 07/02/2019 20:19

I’ve started swimming just before swimming lessons at my gym recently as it fits in well with the crèche being quiet. I’ve noticed that no matter what day I swim, I can always count at least 2 or 3 boys who are almost undoubtedly over 8 (which is the rule) in the female changing rooms just before lessons. Sometimes they use the separate cubicles (there are a couple in the corners) to change themselves so are more than capable of changing alone! I’m aware that some boys might need extra support for whatever reason but I fail to believe that a handful every day at a small health club do.

AIBU to mention it to management? It doesn’t necessarily affect me a great deal as I’m fairly relaxed about nudity and don’t see it as my responsibility to all of a sudden start changing under a towel or anything but I do feel it’s unfair for younger girls to be put in this position.

OP posts:
nolongersurprised · 08/02/2019 12:12

“Personally to me, bringing your 10/11 year old son into the ladies with you in this specific scenario smacks of entitlement tbh.”

Yep.

And I seriously doubt any socially adept 11 year old boy would enter a female changing room anyway.

Limensoda · 08/02/2019 12:13

What do you suggest we do about young girls who aren't comfortable with other girls or women seeing them getting changed? Clear the changing rooms of everyone so their feelings are respected?
Silly question....but just as relevant as girls being sensitive about a little boy being there.

PurpleCrazyHorse · 08/02/2019 12:13

But @PengAly surely a 9yo girl is also at risk changing on her own in a female changing room. Boys have just as much right to change in a male changing room without 9yo girls (and older) in there with their dad. Some parents are saying they're not happy for their 12yo children to use single sex changing. Should a 12yo girl be in the male changing room with her dad?

Petition the leisure centre to have mixed facilities if you don't think it's safe. But both my boy and girl should be able to get changed in single sex facilities without over 8s of the opposite sex in there.

bluetheskyis · 08/02/2019 12:14

If it doesn’t affect you then don’t get involved. If someone is genuinely worried about it then they can speak to the management.

PlantsArePeopleToo · 08/02/2019 12:14

FFS you aren't teaching them rules don't apply to them

Except that if a leisure centre makes it clear that a child over 8 should use the correct sex facilities but you decide to ignore it then yes you are teaching them exactly that.

I have a DS and I would do anything in the world to protect him and keep him safe. However I understand that his safety does not trump the needs, rights and privacy of girls so if his need to be safe and feel safe begins to clash with that of girls then I understand it is up to me to find a solution. It is not up to the girls in that situation to put up and shut up.

Original poster
HenweeArcher · 08/02/2019 12:15

How do you know they are over 8? I can’t say for sure that all of them are. However I have seen boys in secondary school uniform before now. My gym also requires children who are allowed to swim without an adult to wear a wristband - they can only get the wristband if they are 8 and a competent swimmer so with those ones you can be reasonably sure unless they are breaking a whole different rule.

OP posts:
Sleepyblueocean · 08/02/2019 12:16

MumofTinies yes really privileged with a profoundly disabled child who can only travel by car. It being £50 a go means we get to take our son swimming once or twice a year.
I think you should take a look at your own privilege.

PengAly · 08/02/2019 12:16

To take my son swimming we have a 80 minute drive and have to pay £50 to hire the pool for a 40 minute swim. I'm sorry but I struggle to believe this is true. But if so, not every family can do this and their child doesn't deserve to miss out on a vital life skill and fun activity just because they are a boy

Reallyevilmuffin · 08/02/2019 12:16

Weirdly when I was a kid I remember this the opposite way around. People followed the rules quite religiously of 8+ in their own gender (give or take a year) but the amount of mothers in the male changing was rediculous. The lessons went from around 6-16. If these were father's in the girls there would have been hell, but it played no small part in my stopping swimming lessons.

Limensoda · 08/02/2019 12:16

Having had daughters become exquisitely self-conscious daughters who were early developers I wouldn’t dream of sending an 8 plus year old boy into a female change room. I would respect their changing space and I would explain to him why he had to wrap himself in a towel and change at home. I don’t think it’s ridiculous, I think it’s respectful, but each to their own

Your daughters can't see a little boy is a child?
If they were that sensitive they wouldn't particularly like a female seeing them either I should imagine.

Weetabixandshreddies · 08/02/2019 12:22

As feelings trump all else presumably if your dd was staring at me or my dd and making us feel uncomfortable you would be cool with me demanding she leaves and gets dressed in the car yes?

Sleepyblueocean · 08/02/2019 12:22

PengAly he needs a pool to himself with facilities for his disability. You get a hour but that includes changing.

PlantsArePeopleToo · 08/02/2019 12:24

I think the issue is that regardless of cubicles PPs don't want boys in the changing rooms.

But Midnite said that if a girl is uncomfortable changing in front of a boy then she should use a cubicle (assuming there are even cubicles there of course). But why can't the boy use a cubicle? Why is is the responsibility of the girl to shift out of the way?

There was a thread similar to this a while back in Chat where the OP's daughter was getting increasingly uncomfortable with changing in front of boys who were being brought in. There were countless replies telling her how unreasonable she was being and her daughter should use a cubicle if she was uncomfortable. It wasn't until later on in the thread that someone suggested that perhaps the boy should be the one to use the cubicle as it was a female changing room after all.

I think this is what people mean when they talk about boys being taught their needs are more important than girls and girls having to move aside for boys. If it was me with my DS in the scenario above then I would simply take him into one of the cubicles in the ladies. I wouldn't dream of demanding the girls should be the ones to hide away in their own bloody changing room FFS. But for some reason the boy using the cubicle just hadn't seemed to cross anyone's minds and they all expected the girl to just budge up...

nolongersurprised · 08/02/2019 12:27

“Your daughters can't see a little boy is a child?
If they were that sensitive they wouldn't particularly like a female seeing them either I should imagine.”

limen stop creating strawmen arguments with the whole, “Well if your DD doesn’t want a boy her age looking at her then that must mean she doesn’t want anyone looking at her”.

They were fine with women and girls, just not boys their own age. I don’t think that’s unusual. And a “little” girl aged 8 plus may well have pubertal changes, girls shouldn’t have to justify wanting same sex changing rooms.

The answer shouldn’t be to tell girls to shift over and clear some of their space to accommodate males, it should be for their males to find their own option.

Personally I’d go with the options I mentioned earlier, it’s fascinating to me that other parents would ignore rules and girls’ feelings.

PlantsArePeopleToo · 08/02/2019 12:28

As feelings trump all else presumably if your dd was staring at me or my dd and making us feel uncomfortable you would be cool with me demanding she leaves and gets dressed in the car yes?

No because their DD is a girl and has every right to be there. Not to mention staring is not a crime.

However if someone in the changing room is behaving badly then feel free to make a complaint and have them kicked out. That applies to both sexes.

PengAly · 08/02/2019 12:31

it’s fascinating to me that other parents would ignore rules and girls’ feelings.

It's fascinating to me that a parent couldn't care about safeguarding.

Weetabixandshreddies · 08/02/2019 12:32

No because their DD is a girl and has every right to be there. Not to mention staring is not a crime.

Errmm. Surely if they are making me or my dd uncomfortable then that's the issue? And how come a girl staring is fine because staring isn't a crime but a 7 year old boy staring (who is allowed to be there) is him showing how entitled he is?

nolongersurprised · 08/02/2019 12:33

I would hope that my son, after 8 years, would be sufficiently respectful and considerate that he wouldn’t dream of encroaching on a girls’ changing space.

(Although I wouldn’t expect him to articulate it like that.)

Weetabixandshreddies · 08/02/2019 12:35

However if someone in the changing room is behaving badly then feel free to make a complaint and have them kicked out.
Indeed I shall from now on then. Am sure all the mums will accept it because it's my right to change without a child making me or my dd feel uncomfortable.

I have a huge scar that kids always stare at - makes me feel very uncomfortable. I shall call them all out on it from now on because - feelings.

goldengummybear · 08/02/2019 12:36

If 8 year olds aren't safe in the men's, at what age do they become safe? I understand that 8 is arbitrary - why not 7 or 9? but if you know that the pool rules are 8 then you can start working on getting changed independently at age 7 so they are ready by 8 and would know what to do if they encounter a random problem like stuff locker key.

If the men's is unsafe for 8 year olds, what age are the men who you deem as risks? Your son will be that age one day and are you really ok that adult women think that he's potentially a risk?

PlantsArePeopleToo · 08/02/2019 12:36

It's fascinating to me that a parent couldn't care about safeguarding.

People do care about safeguarding. Just not at the expense of the privacy and dignity of girls.

HalfBloodPrincess · 08/02/2019 12:37

The gist of it is that females are being made to pay for the fact that there might be a paedophile in the men’s changing rooms.

That’s the important issue that everyone should be angry with. It should be safe for a 8/9 year old boy in the men’s changing room. It’s not a females responsibility to be held accountable if you think it’s not.

PengAly · 08/02/2019 12:38

And how come a girl staring is fine because staring isn't a crime but a 7 year old boy staring (who is allowed to be there) is him showing how entitled he is?

Well, this thread has shown that supposedly its because all young boys grow up to be misogynistic men who don't care about women and that should mean boys should be put at risk or not get to enjoy the benefits of swimming because they will turn into mean menConfused (Obviously I'm being sarcastic)

PlantsArePeopleToo · 08/02/2019 12:38

Indeed I shall from now on then. Am sure all the mums will accept it because it's my right to change without a child making me or my dd feel uncomfortable.

Read my post again. I said if someone is behaving badly then feel free to make a complaint. Staring at someone and/or making them feel uncomfortable is hardly behaving badly and not something the staff would throw someone out for.

PlantsArePeopleToo · 08/02/2019 12:40

Well, this thread has shown that supposedly its because all young boys grow up to be misogynistic men who don't care about women and that should mean boys should be put at risk or not get to enjoy the benefits of swimming because they will turn into mean menconfused (Obviously I'm being sarcastic)

Yet you won't let your son use the mens because there might be a pedophile in there just waiting to prey on a young boy. Interesting.