To be thinking of putting my 4 week old upstairs to bed?

[m4rdybum]

Asking here because I'd like a wider range
of views, other than the group of Mumsnet posters who only go by exact guidelines and have no room for manoeuvre. Also because I'm open to being called unreasonable if it means I'm more successful in raising my DD.

DD is 3 weeks old. DH goes back to work just after she turns 4 weeks.

We've started toying with the idea of getting her used to being upstairs for "bedtime" (starting when DH goes back to work), which at the minute would be around her 8/9pm bottle. I also totally get that a routine probably won't stick with her for a while - but we're quite lucky that she already has her own predictable feeding routine on the go (for now) - it's more for us at the minute.

Me and DH usually go to bed around 10pm. She currently sleeps in her Moses basket in the living room and gets taken upstairs with us.

I know of the recommendation for babies up to 6 months to sleep in the same room as parents day and night, to help reduce the risk of SIDS and want to stress that of course I'm hyper aware of this and don't want it to happen. DD sleeps next to our bed and will do so until 6 months.

But I'm curious as to who follows this to the rule when it comes to start thinking about a bedtime? There's a lot of kids in my family and most have started going up to bed between 1 & 2 months old.

We, of course, have a baby monitor and also would check on her regularly until we went up to bed. It would just be nice to not have to worry so much about being quiet with her in the room.

Has anyone else done this? Any recommendations? Warnings?

With all my 3 DC I put them to sleep in the cot next to our bed from almost new born. We live in a flat so 2 doors away from living room .

I find the comments about driving so ridiculous. Driving with babies in a car is one of the things that has changed massively in relatively recent times.

Most people wouldn’t think about sticking their baby in a carrycot on the backseat anymore, or just holding them because we know that it’s much safer to put them in car seats and have them strapped in securely. It would be utterly impractical to never go anywhere so it’s made as safe as possible by using age appropriate car seats in road worthy cars.

Yet the some of the same people scoff about guidelines that have massively decreased the instances of SIDS.

I co slept with DD for 2 years, then she went in her own room at 2.5.

I can never say I missed her being on her own upstairs, whilst I sat downstairs. I loved her being near me.

She goes to bed fine now, so I dont think getting a robot baby into a routine is beneficial for later life.

I started putting my son to bed (in our room) at about 7pm when he was 11 weeks. We probably went about 10pm. He used to get disturbed in the living room so worked for us. He stayed in our room til 6 months xx

You were not actually trying to help the OP with what you thought was genuine PND, and don't pretend you were. It was another way of you trying to tell her that she was not just wrong but somehow pathological.

So you know my reasons for posting better than I do? Given that you're psychic, could you tell me this week's lottery numbers?

I have a relative who didn't want to be close to her baby and it eventually turned out that she had PND. Something like one in ten mothers have it.

It was pretty obvious from your posts that you weren't trying to be even remotely helpful, @Pearl87, they were insensitive and nasty.

Conversely DD was with us for all sleeps until 6 months. Then in our room with a monitor until she was 2.

She slept like a dream and at 3 goes to bed with no fights or tantrums. Sleeps from 6:30pm-7am sometimes later on weekends.

Personally I didn’t flout the guidelines because I knew I would absolutely never be able to live with myself if anything had happened to her whilst she slept upstairs. I’d rather have 6 months of disturbed sleep/evenings than a lifetime of ‘what if’s’

Pouty, why do you think that your views are so absolutely correct you can be extraordinarly rude to everyone who doesn't agree with you?
It's funny how using your own judgement is frowned upon, apart from when talking about co-sleeping, when suddenly the guidelines are conveniently cast aside.

Also I think it’s worth bearing in mind that thing Sarah Ockwell Smith says - in the first year, the best sleep you’ll get is at 4-8 weeks.

3m sleep regression may leave you hollow laughing at the thought of a routine.

If it does, you aren’t a failure. Plenty of us have been through it. Keep baby close and keep on keeping on.

It may not even be 'hearing' you breathe - one of the suggestions is that it's the exchange of carbon dioxide which regulates their breathing. No-one really knows - but we know it makes a difference.

And to those who say putting their very young babies into heir own rooms meant that their babies slept a lot better - that's exactly what you don't want to happen. Very young babies, in a much deeper sleep then they're supposed to be in, without an adult to regulate their breathing - that's a massive SIDS risk right there. Your babies were fine. Other babies in the same situation weren't.

Babies are biologically designed to sleep lightly and wake often. It helps to keep them safe.

Op, I would get yourself a copy of 'the science of parenting' which explains about brain development and how parenting influences it. It also has information about crying, cuddling, and sleep. It is fully referenced / evidenced by numerous (pages and pages) of scientific research.

People follow guidelines (or don't) depending on their level of acceptable risk. Personally, putting a baby younger than 6m to sleep alone is a greater level of risk than I'm comfortable with. However - I bedshare (following safety guidelines) as I am comfortable with the level of risk that poses. Some people aren't.

And yes, guidelines change. That's because guidelines are based on our best scientific knowledge at the time / our technology and research methods / our ability to interpret results. They're not just plucked out of thin air, and it amazes me that so many have the attitude that they're 'only' guidelines and basically exist to be ignored.

@Rosieposie9 I do too! DS is nearly nine weeks and I've watched a total of 53 episodes of Australian MasterChef in that time, an episode with ads FF is 45 minutes, the same amount of time it takes DS to breastfeed, which he does seven or eight times a day. DH thinks he'll have an Australian accent when he starts talking 🙈

I'd also like to add my son slept downstairs with me until 6 months and he is a good sleeper. Puts himself to sleep in his cot at 7pm. He wakes earlier than I would like, but that is nothing to do with him being with us. Keeping him close to us downstairs hasnt 'made a rod for our own back' or meant he doesnt have a routine.

They aren't just guidelines, they have stopped babies dying.
Remember back when the guidelines said put them on their tummies.

Then there were the guidelines that suggested sheepskin type rugs.

The guidelines are just that, a GUIDEline. The problem is, they just don’t know what causes SIDS. They think certain things are a risk. This allows people to weight up the risks.

The 6 month room sharing thing (incidentally some countries recommend us to 12 months) is way down the list in terms of prevention. You know what’s higher? Breastfeeding, and yet the vast majority of mums don’t do this beyond 6 weeks. In New Zealand in the 90s, research was done which showed chemicals used in mattresses, particularly if they were second hand, were a risk. Not a single baby sleeping on a wrapped mattress has died. It is part of the recommendations in NZ but barely gets a mention here. So, unless you are following every recommendation here and in every other piece of research everywhere else in the world, you are not eliminating every risk.

And the reality is, you can follow every single recommendation and SIDS can still occur. Life is about balance, about weighing up risks. You can’t eliminate them all.

I haven't read TFT, so apologies if this has been covered, but it always amuses me that the MN collective are all for following the guidelines to the absolute letter, except when it comes to co-sleeping, which is somehow a totally different story.

OP, I'm sorry this thread has become so nasty. I think if baby is content to sleep in a Moses basket beside you I'd do that, but my understanding is that there are bigger risk factors for SIDS than this one.

None of us can eliminate all risk and we need to make informed decisions based on our own circumstances.

We always did. Ours both slept well from about 7 til 11. I'd go to bed with H then move when they first woke up. I had a single bed in the baby's room. Spent the rest of the night there.

I was initially going to direct this at a particular poster, then decided that was itself unhelpful. But I do want to say:

I love my baby, and adore having him near me. However, I would have found either sitting in a dark bedroom from 7pm or pacing the living room with a screaming baby (because those were my options - he would and did sleep in my arms or in the sling in the light in the day, but from about eight weeks he just would not do that at night) for four months until he hit six months completely disastrous for my already slightly shaky mental health. It's not like I made every decision around me - I kept breastfeeding even though I suffered pretty badly with the toll of doing every nightfeeding, for instance - but I did that one, though I did also feel that I was doing my best to keep him calm and happy. I feel ok with my decisions - I love my baby completely and know I'm doing my best for him, even if it's not absolutely perfect. I don't feel the need to criticise other people's very different choices, and I think that's because I feel pretty secure in mine. I can't help but think that many of the posters on this thread could not say the same.

We've always put our baby upstairs in our room with the monitor on before we go up. Intact she is there now and I can watch the monitor. I actually watch her more on the monitor then when she is in the room with me

SIDS has actually increased by over 10% in the last 12 months reported, which is a huge blow. Just over 12 months ago my DH carried our close relatives baby coffin into church. The worst & saddest day of our entire lives. Our lives fundamentally changed that day and will never ever be the same. You really don’t ever get over such a tragedy.

Our relative was older than 6 months but it was still classed as SIDS.

I can really see your logic OP but crikey it’s such a risk. What if god forbid the worst happened?

I may be tempted to move your baby at 4-5 months but honestly so think it’s a bit early yet

it’s much safer to put them in car seats and have them strapped in securely.
Except that car seat sleeping, especially for prolonged periods is a risk for SIDS. So, should people never take babies out in cars? It is also different because the prevention of injury by using a car seat is provable and measurable. The prevention of SIDS is only theory as nobody actually knows why it happens.

have the attitude that they're 'only' guidelines and basically exist to be ignored.
I’m surprised how many think because they are guidelines they must NEVER be ignored.

I would absolutely never be able to live with myself if anything had happened
The guilt, the what ifs, would still happen. I followed all the advice during pregnancy. It all went tits up at 29 weeks and DD was born early and now has a disability. Following advice didn’t stop me feeling entirely responsible for it.

There are bedsharing (cosleeping) guidelines. Following those guidelines means that having your baby in your bed is as safe as having them in your cot. Unfortunately, in the past many trusts didn't share the safety guidelines, which lead to exhausted parents falling asleep with their baby without meaning to (meaning they weren't following safety guidelines) or having their baby in bed with them not knowing how to make it safe and so doing it dangerously. If you take out all the instances of unsafe bedsharing from the data, the risk is equal to your baby being in a cot. Interestingly, more recent guidance from places like NICE, NHS and the Lullaby Trust is to share bedsharing safety guidelines with parents rather than just tell them not to do it.

My baby sleeps in his cot in our room, but I frequently put him down for naps and bed there without staying in the room the whole time.
Granted, we have a single storey house, but as long as you can hear the baby and check frequently, I don't see this being a problem.. It's not like you've got them in a completely separate room to the parents.

I think I'm a bit lazy so I'm enjoying being in bed when my DS goes to sleep at 6ish, He's in a bedside crib and I'm binge watching something. But my decision making for this was the same as for vaccinating and weaning at six months, if god forbid anything happened at the very least I could think I'd followed the guidelines ( I know this would be little comfort but any would be better than nothing). It's your decision and I know it's horrible and feels like scaremongering but it's better to know than not.

I don't really understand why you would ignore guidelines. Especially guidelines that have been issued to lessen the risk of harm to your baby.

Haven’t rtft but I’m afraid I think this is unreasonable.
It’s directly against all the established, research based guidelines.
Everyone wants a great bedtime routine but 4 weeks is extremely young to be expecting this.
Everyone has different approaches but we did ‘bedtime’ from about 4 months - literally impossible before this as I ebf and he cluster fed till midnight until this age! After that we did a bedtime routine around 7 or so and just sucked up being in the bedroom after that, with lights on low, reading or just chilling and being able to quickly feed on demand so he would quickly drift off to sleep again, or not really fully wake up. It was relatively restful actually. I would be surprised if sleep at this age was any real predictor if ongoing sleep patterns as it is just SO young.