To be thinking of putting my 4 week old upstairs to bed?

[m4rdybum]

Asking here because I'd like a wider range
of views, other than the group of Mumsnet posters who only go by exact guidelines and have no room for manoeuvre. Also because I'm open to being called unreasonable if it means I'm more successful in raising my DD.

DD is 3 weeks old. DH goes back to work just after she turns 4 weeks.

We've started toying with the idea of getting her used to being upstairs for "bedtime" (starting when DH goes back to work), which at the minute would be around her 8/9pm bottle. I also totally get that a routine probably won't stick with her for a while - but we're quite lucky that she already has her own predictable feeding routine on the go (for now) - it's more for us at the minute.

Me and DH usually go to bed around 10pm. She currently sleeps in her Moses basket in the living room and gets taken upstairs with us.

I know of the recommendation for babies up to 6 months to sleep in the same room as parents day and night, to help reduce the risk of SIDS and want to stress that of course I'm hyper aware of this and don't want it to happen. DD sleeps next to our bed and will do so until 6 months.

But I'm curious as to who follows this to the rule when it comes to start thinking about a bedtime? There's a lot of kids in my family and most have started going up to bed between 1 & 2 months old.

We, of course, have a baby monitor and also would check on her regularly until we went up to bed. It would just be nice to not have to worry so much about being quiet with her in the room.

Has anyone else done this? Any recommendations? Warnings?

MRex, I think I wasn’t clear. That response was regarding the posts where people said that establishing a routine for a small baby was cruel and pointless and that people should always cuddle their babies to sleep. Most bedtime routines include lots of cuddles.
Mississippi, if your baby has CMPA a routine or lack of one is going to make very little difference in the early days and as the baby gets older it will still be much harder. I’m sorry to hear you’re having such a tough time.

@Mississippilessly - 5 hours is great, hopefully he can build on that to get gradually longer sleeps! (Assuming he had other small sleeps too?) Nobody can guess things like CMPA unless there's a massive family history of it, it takes time for anybody to diagnose it. The only way is up now! Or rather down, to sleep!

I'm hoping so. He seems much more comfortable and getting him back to sleep at night is becoming much easier. We have had a routine since about 12 weeks, so I'm hoping he will still feel bedtime.

Just quickly reading over the thread on my early lunch break (yeah, I also work full time - judge away!) - early because DS got up for the day at 5.45, after a pretty bad night, so I had my own breakfast with him at 6.15 so I'm sodding starving, and very sleepy... Again, clearly not pretending I have any sleep expertise or answers here!

I just find it so upsetting to see the way women attack each other over baby care. I had never really experienced anything like it in my adult life before, and to be honest before I had a baby I thought the 'mummy wars' stuff was sexist bullshit. Then you see stuff like this, where a new mother is upset and people just keep rounding and rounding on her. And then other people get made to feel like they're doing it wrong (I'm really sorry that the thread has been so upsetting for you, Mississippilessly - as others have said, it sounds like you're doing fantastically and haven't done anything wrong at all). It all reminds me of the kind of playground behaviour that we surely all aim to teach our children to avoid?

Thanks for those of you who said nice things! And big wave to you peachgreen!

Wise words indeed. I feel much better now, thank you. Sorry you had a crappy night x

Hi Mississippilessly--my post was not directed at you, but at people like Pouty who keep urging us to choose sleeplessness as a sort of parenting choice.

I do totally get that there is a minority of babies who just don't respond to the things that generally help most babies sleep better. It sounds like you may have one of them and are struggling.

I don't really have any advice if you have tried the usual things and none of them has worked. I just hope that your baby grows out of it soon and you get some more rest.

Thanks Kokeshi123. It's quite a bizarre idea of parenting peddled by Pouty and I really feel for the OP. I've found the evening thing the least explained bit of parenthood - I really dont see how I could follow guidelines if I ever have amnesia and have a second!
It's a good job he is cute.

There have even harsh things said by both sides, IMO.
I chose to do all the attachment stuff with DS (now 15 months) barely put him down, always and still do (safely) bed share etc
My reasons have been firstly to follow guidelines but also because I suffered emotional neglect as a child and it’s done a real number on my emotional health.
Definitely not saying for one minute that other parents are emotionally neglecting their babies - not all - but I am so anxious for him not to turn out like me I worry about not being there for him all the time. I’m tired and emotional most of the time but DS is a very happy little boy. I hate to be labelled as a martyr by people who disagree with this style of parenting. I at least get some comfort from the fact that if he does have issues when he is older, it won’t be because I didn’t love him enough.

In no way is this an attack on the OP or anyone else for that matter. I’m sure you all love your babies and they’re all secure and happy. I just suffer a lot of anxiety around this issue I think.

ethelfreda I am sorry to hear about your childhood. Nigh on impossible to let your own childhood not influence your own parenting.

Our DS was around 10 weeks old when we moved his Moses Basket in to our bedroom at 7pm ish after his bath and bottle. For context we live in a bungalow so he was literally next door, we had a video monitor as well as the sensor pads underneath the Moses Basket mattress which monitored baby movement.

He'd have his bottle, settle to sleep and if he stirred I'd go straight in to him for a snuggle but tbh he rarely did, until 10pm ish when he'd want another feed, I'd be getting in to bed around then anyway. We found this helped lots to introduce a bed time routine to him, I did try this at 6 weeks but it was too early he was still very attached to DH and I at that point.

I personally don't know anyone IRL who has kept baby in living room with them till 6 months old... DS was in his own room from 6 months old as he'd outgrown his Moses Basket by that point and there's no way his cot would have fit in our bedroom. We'd definitely have disturbed him having him in living room with us at that age as he was far more alert and aware of his surroundings.

Do what you thinks best for your baby but I think 4 weeks is a little bit too early, just from my experience.

As an aside, there seems to be a lot of mention of Moses baskets. I hope everyone is aware they mustn't carry the baby directly in the moses basket by the handles because there have been some injuries with babies falling out / broken handles etc.

Quick Google only showed old links for me, but they mentioned it at our hospital antenatal classes: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1121663/.

I didnt know that!

This whole thread has been an absolute nightmare.
I mean, I didn't even know that people were being told baby has to be by parent's side for every sleep at all times.
In Australia, we're told that baby's bed needs to be in the same room as the parent's bed for the first 6-12 months, and most people don't interpret this as "Baby needs to sleep by parents side 24/7".
Most other new mums I know are trying to put baby down for naps and sleep in their own cots, and certainly not staying in the same room all the time baby is asleep.
The only times we're staying in the same room is if baby is sleeping in a bouncer, on the play mat, or in a pram, as these are all non-recommended places for babies to sleep (but many a busy parent will let babies nap in them if they're in the same room).
Not even our visiting nurses are saying "Keep baby with you at all times for all sleeps".
Unless they're having significant health issues, there's no need to watch baby 24/7. As long as you're following SIDS guidelines which is back to sleep, nothing else in the cot, and a comfortable temperature, and you're checking regularly, then this should be fine.

People in the UK seem to be following very very strict guidelines that make their lives very difficult and promote sleep deprivation.
And sleep deprivation causes parents to fall asleep on the couch while holding baby... Which is one of the highest risk places for babies to die from SIDS.

rednose.com.au/article/what-is-a-safe-sleeping-environment

I dont think there is a consensus on how to interpret this guideline. I definitely used to (well before the sleep regression) quickly go to the toilet or make a cup of tea if DD was asleep in her pram elsewhere but didn't leave her for long periods. I've no idea if this was "acceptable" or if I should have been taking her into the bathroom with me.

I'm extremely risk averse, but even I would leave DS go for a trip to the toilet or answer the door however tiny he was, it would be ridiculously impractical not to. For a shower though after 4 weeks or so I used to put him in his bouncer awake or he'd stay with DH. For dinner we'd eat in the room with him, or lay him in his flat chair in the kitchen with us until he was 8 weeks or so, then after that we'd do the same or I'd go through after DH served up and he'd be on the monitor for the 10/15 min; then one of us would go back while the other one cleared up and get the movie / TV series ready to play. So I guess I mentally for no good reason at all drew the line at 10/15 minutes (and therefore much less than a sleep cycle); also the door would be open and we were in the room next door so he would hear us, I believe from what I've read that it's most likely that noise helps babies to not sleep too deeply. He didn't get sick that young but if he'd been unwell then I wouldn't have left him for even 10 minutes. Reading about SIDS is also why we felt safer at 4 months putting him upstairs; he was big, breastfed, he could roll, he was very disturbed by noise, only other risk factor is being a boy, the stats aren't very different 4 to 6 months and he is still on a video monitor even now so we can see him breathing (and hear him when he gets loud). Then we changed again a few weeks later and started putting him to sleep in the cool room next to the living room for 2 months because the bedroom got much too hot (summer) and needed to cool to a safer temperature for him. Everyone will do things in a slightly different way, but for us when the risks changed as the weeks passed we changed our behaviour accordingly.

As others have pointed out, the general background hum of household noise is going to stop a baby going into deep sleep when they are tiny. Mine invariable stirs a lot in the evening while we are in the living room. She is not in deep sleep.

More important for SIDS prevention are:

Breastfeed if possible--exclusively if possible for the first few months
Do not bedshare ideally--but if you must, obey safer bedsharing guidelines
Do not smoke before or after having the baby and do not allow other people to smoke in your house
Use baby gear that meets modern standards
Ensure that your building is free from damp, mould, spores etc.
Make sure the room and baby are the right temperature
Build baby's motor skills through tummy time, chest-on-chest time and other exercises, and when baby is awake use a sling when possible rather than leaving them stuck in car seats for long periods of time. The quicker the baby learns how to hold up their head, turn their neck, support their upper body, roll, the quicker they will be able to get themselves out of a dangerous position if they somehow end up in one (such as a piece of material getting over their face).

*People in the UK seem to be following very very strict guidelines that make their lives very difficult and promote sleep deprivation.
And sleep deprivation causes parents to fall asleep on the couch while holding baby... Which is one of the highest risk places for babies to die from SIDS. *

This. Except that rather than "people in the UK," it would be better to say "a few martyr mummies on Mumsnet." I don't know anyone in real life who obeys the rules that people have claimed to following in this thread.

Kokeshi
Please don’t refer to mums who are being cautious as ‘martyr mummies’
It really isn’t fair!

I would agree Kokeshi. I think the vast majority of parents are sensible, but not extreme. How else could you live your life?
Unfortunately, threads such as this one seem to attract the extreme parents and/or those who lack either the common sense, or intelligence or confidence to do anything other than follow guidelines slavishly without thinking about them.
Kind of agree that labelling all such mums as martyrs may be a little unfair, but there does seem to be a hardcore of mums on here who wear their sleeplessness as a badge of honour and accuse those who disagree with their methods of being a lot worse than martyrs.

Argh, again with the criticising others! It doesn't make someone a martyr to do what makes them feel happiest and most comfortable; nor does it mean that everyone else has to do the same.

@Kokeshi123 having nearly lost my baby, I couldn’t give a shiny shit if people like you think I’m a martyr or not. The guidelines have reduced SIDS by 75%. If that’s something you don’t care about then be as cavalier with your own children as you like. You don’t get to judge people for following the best available medical advice.

Babies need other humans nearby to help regulate their breathing

This keeps coming up. It is not proven, only a theory, and comes way down on the list of risk factors.

Lisa you’re talking a lot more sense than some others.
We all try to parent in a way that fits in with our own experiences and beliefs (read my post a little upthread about why I parent the way I do!) and sneering at people for doing it differently is not fair. Give advice and points of view without telling people they are either a martyr or barbaric.

It's just such a depressing cycle - one side strikes ('you're a martyr'), the other side retaliates ('you're cavalier with your child's life!') and back and forth, back and forth.

Yep. And it’s happening on yet another sleep related thread just a couple of pages in already.