To be thinking of putting my 4 week old upstairs to bed?

[m4rdybum]

Asking here because I'd like a wider range
of views, other than the group of Mumsnet posters who only go by exact guidelines and have no room for manoeuvre. Also because I'm open to being called unreasonable if it means I'm more successful in raising my DD.

DD is 3 weeks old. DH goes back to work just after she turns 4 weeks.

We've started toying with the idea of getting her used to being upstairs for "bedtime" (starting when DH goes back to work), which at the minute would be around her 8/9pm bottle. I also totally get that a routine probably won't stick with her for a while - but we're quite lucky that she already has her own predictable feeding routine on the go (for now) - it's more for us at the minute.

Me and DH usually go to bed around 10pm. She currently sleeps in her Moses basket in the living room and gets taken upstairs with us.

I know of the recommendation for babies up to 6 months to sleep in the same room as parents day and night, to help reduce the risk of SIDS and want to stress that of course I'm hyper aware of this and don't want it to happen. DD sleeps next to our bed and will do so until 6 months.

But I'm curious as to who follows this to the rule when it comes to start thinking about a bedtime? There's a lot of kids in my family and most have started going up to bed between 1 & 2 months old.

We, of course, have a baby monitor and also would check on her regularly until we went up to bed. It would just be nice to not have to worry so much about being quiet with her in the room.

Has anyone else done this? Any recommendations? Warnings?

But then babies are born and some women disregard some guidelines completely despite it being well documented that they’re a risk. Babies sleeping in swings / car seats, perfect prep machines, disregarding safe sleep guidelines... I don’t understand it at all.

You say "since I got pregnant"--so, am I to take it that you are still pregnant and have not actually got the baby yet?

Once the baby is born you may have your answer.

With pregnancy you are in a better position to control what is going on since the baby is still inside you. When you have got a real baby to take care of, it all changes.

It's all very well saying "The rules say you should do this and that," but what if trying to follow all the rules (about formula prep, sleep or whatever) to the letter causes hideous sleep deprivation, pain, depression or whatever? At the end of the day, these are guidelines--you sometimes have to tweak them a little in order to ensure you are able to be a safe and functional parent.

Many parents who put their baby to sleep in their own room aren’t necessarily doing it to ‘watch tv’ or ‘get their evenings back’ (although there is nothing wrong with that). It is often because they believe, and it has worked for their other children, that having a strict bed time and bedroom guarantees a better sleep routine for the baby.

There are countless threads on here about children who can’t or won’t sleep on their own or sleep through the night and parents being utterly exhausted about the situation.

THIS.

When my baby had a bad week (for unrelated reasons), it gave me a bit of insight into what it is like trying to being a mother while being extremely sleep deprived.

I was not as responsive or engaged with my child in the daytime as I usually wasI tried my best but it was just very very hard. I got a cold sore due to being so run down and was terrified of infecting my baby with the herpes virus (dangerous for tiny babies). But the scariest thing was that I repeatedly woke up in bed with her beside me, and no idea of how she had got there. I must have been so tired I just sleepwalked her into bed with me. The blankets were sometimes up round her faceit was frightening. The final straw was when I briefly nodded off on a sofa while feeding her. I tried and tried to stay awake but that is the kind of thing that happens when you are very sleep deprived. And it is very VERY dangerous to do thatyou can crush or suffocate a baby. Thank God I am not car dependent, but getting behind the wheel of a car would have been scary. The research shows that driving while very sleep deprived is as dangerous as drink drivingand my baby would have been in the back.

I seriously cannot imagine choosing to parent in a way which would cause me to be like this all the time, and the above is pretty much a summary of why we do bedtime routines in a bedroom (dark w/white noise), drowsy but awake, approximate daily routine and all that.

There is no point in obeying every safe sleeping "rule" (actually, guideline) to the letter, if doing so results in you becoming so sleep deprived that you end up doing things that are much more dangerous, like falling asleep on the couch with the baby, or giving up BFing because you are so tired (FFing increases the risk of SIDs), or driving round and round in the night trying to make the baby sleep and then crashing the car.

MN is full of parents who are knackered after spending night after night up with their kids. I am not interested in becoming one of them--not just for my sake but for my child's.

Kokeshi123 Again, it's not a fucking choice for some of us.

My baby doesn't do drowsy but awake. I wish he did.
But thank you reminding me that I am constantly putting my baby at risk because I am so tired.

Are people really so thick that they think this is a chosen path?
I have never left my baby alone to sleep because I was told not to. So I haven't. But according to you that now means that I choose to be deeply sleep deprived. Oh good.

Kokeshi no I’m not still pregnant - I have two year old twins with ASD so very familiar with how difficult parenting can be, thanks! I meant I joined them when I was pregnant.

My twins slept very badly until around 15 months - they’re almost 2.5 now and it still takes them hours to get to sleep. They used to tag team me so I barely slept at all, I was broken - I still didn’t let them sleep alone at a young age.

Just do whatever works for your family.

@Mississippilessly - sorry to hear you're struggling. My DS was up a lot early days, but his sleep cycles gradually lengthened; with breastfeeding it will always take longer. Then his sleep got messed up briefly for occasional teething or "look, I can sit up so I'll sit up 95 times in the bed" type of development; then the 7-9 month sleep regression was awful. But again from about 8 months his sleep cycles moved from hourly to 2-hourly, 3, 4... I found focusing on really good day nap intervals (check out awake times by age on the internet) made everything fall into place much more easily, the rest is just time. Now we're back at just having one late night feed wake-up, though we do mostly cosleep (from 11.30, he sleeps on his own on a monitor until then now as he's big) so he has hugs anyway all night. I've had my SIL continually nag me to try controlled crying despite a lot of "that doesn't work for us" (maybe she's one of this thread's evangelists) and I feel really happy that with what we did because it's true that naturally the babies do eventually start to sleep longer. Your baby will get there too.

Op, you either have a sleeper or don’t ime. No amount of routine will affect this

Babies are designed to be with you. Being near a breathing person esp mum helps regulate their breathing which is what helps prevent SIDs. I would wait out the guidelines. Far better for the baby to learn to sleep through sounds for naps when out and about/on holiday etc. Will give you ice more freedom over the next few years

Those whose baby inexplicably died, I'm so sorry for your heartbreak. My neighbour as a child lost her baby while he was in his pram and it happened so quickly, she was only a few hundred metres for home when she checked on him and realised. It's terrifying but sometimes there will simply be nothing a mum can do, however much care you take.

Those who amazingly saved their babies, thank you for sharing your stories, I can't imagine how you cope with the stress.

I wouldn’t personally. But then I’m still bed sharing with a 15 month old so what do I know

Mississippi you seem to take every post as a personal attack. You chose to follow the sids guidelines to the letter and that is a perfectly valid choice. If this isn’t working for you you can try something else? Other posters are saying that they were comfortable to not follow the guidelines to the letter as they believed the benefits outweighed the risks.

Op, you either have a sleeper or don’t ime. No amount of routine will affect this

Babies are designed to be with you. Being near a breathing person esp mum helps regulate their breathing which is what helps prevent SIDs. I would wait out the guidelines. Far better for the baby to learn to sleep through sounds for naps when out and about/on holiday etc.

Hang on, surely you either can teach a baby habits around sleep (a routine, to sleep through noise) or you can't? If you can't affect them at all with a routine then you also can't encourage them to prefer a noisy sleeping environment.

We put our daughter to bed in our room at 7pm from 10 weeks when she became ready for an earlier bedtime. It was so lovely to have our evenings back! I wouldn't advise others to go off guideline but for our family it worked and we would do it again. Do what's best for you, like PP have said the real time risk of SIDS is low, more common if baby was prem or low birth weight. Most common causes found are co-sleeping (stomach sleeping before the back to sleep campaign) as well as smoking in and around house, and having blankets, teddies etc in the babies cot. Parenting is a constant balance of risks and benefit and these will be interpreted differently by different people so my advice is to go with what you and your partner are happy with and let others do their own thing.

3Wildones no, what i object to is the use of the word choice. DS wont self settle, I haven't chosen to have to rock him to sleep.

But that isnt about leaving them alone. I miss my evenings very much but I choose to go to bed with DS because I need the sleep.

What I'm saying is sleep deprived parents really dont need to be told that they are in a situation out of choice. The only personal attack has been from poutysprout but that seems to be par for the course for her.

2/3 of mine went to bed in the evening but that was before the benefit of baby sleeping whilst in the same room as someone else was known.
SIDS is very rare following the back to bed campaign and other bits of advice around smoking and overheating.
I think we all have our own boundaries and of course that is our prerogative. In my case I kept baby 3 by my side ( or on me) for the first 6 months and justified this with public health advice but he slept on the bed with us from day 1 so I compromised there.

Mississippi there have been lots of people on this thread who have suggested that it’s cruel to not cuddle a baby to sleep every night or that this suggests they don’t have a strong attachment or that they haven’t bonded with their babies.
People do make different choices about how they parent. There are lots of things to do to help a baby self settle and sleep through. As evidenced by this thread lots of people do choose to cuddle their baby to sleep and not establish any routine and that is a perfectly valid choice.
If you’re not happy because your baby doesn’t sleep then I’m sure plenty of people will be able to give you advice.

@PoutySprout If it wasn't actively damaging the mental health of a vulnerable new mum your hypocrisy would be hilarious. You spent the first half of the thread insisting that everyone should always following the safe sleep guidelines to the letter and anyone who didn't was probably ill and definitely a bad mother, and then the second half explaining why actually, with your own daughter, you went against some of the guidelines in order to following your instincts because you're such a good mother.

Guess what - that's what we ALL do. The vast majority of mums follow all the guidelines apart from when they simply don't work for their own baby for whatever reason. My daughter was put on her back on a new mattress in an otherwise empty cot etc etc - BUT she was in her own room from 3 months because when she was in our room we were waking her up constantly, she was waking us up constantly and as a result she was a fractious, overtired mess and I was struggling with extreme sleep deprivation and severe PND. The first night we put her in her own room she slept through besides waking up once to feed (and I know this because I spent most of the night anxiously watching her on the monitor!). It was the right decision for her - as, instinctively, I knew it was - and while it went against the sleep guidelines it was an acceptable risk for us because it improved the quality of her life significantly. That doesn't make me a bad mum any more than chest-sleeping with tons of pillows (against safe co-sleeping guidelines) makes you a bad mum.

We're all doing our best.

@m4rdybum, if you're still reading I'm so sorry you've had to face this thread. It's been awful. You are a wonderful mum and wanting to put your baby into a bedtime routine as quickly as possible doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you. Rest assured that in years to come some of the smug martyr mums on here will be back asking for advice because they can't cope with a tantrumming toddler or a moody teenager and you'll be able to give advice because you found that stage a breeze. Motherhood is a marathon, not a sprint.

@LisaSimpsonsbff As ever, your contributions to parenting threads are kind, considerate, supportive and understanding. Thank you. 

@3WildOnes - I don't think you have a clear understanding of what people have said at all. lots of people do choose to cuddle their baby to sleep has nothing to do with and not establish any routine. My baby is 10 months, he goes to bed at 6.30 and gets a breastfeed plus cuddle until he falls asleep (usually at 7, latest 7.45). He'll sleep until he wants his late feed anytime 10.30-3.30am. If he wakes up in between then he now sits and politely waits for us to go to him (or shouts if we're in the bed next to his), he will only be crying if he's in teething pain. Just because some people don't think babies want cuddles doesn't mean our bedtime isn't a routine. He also has naptimes at specific times of day, though they flex more based on when he woke up and what plans we have. It works for us, and he gets cuddled when he chooses.

3WildOnes I've applied so much advice I feel like my head is going to implode. He still wakes several times a night
I would love to be able to put him down and him to go to sleep!

He has suspected CMPA, once we have dealt with that I'm getting a sleep consultant in.
Like I said, ignoring the cruel batshitness all I'm saying is it is difficult to hear the suggestion that by following the guidelines I have ruined my baby's sleep. Its not like I got home and thought 'I know, I'll create a rod for my own back right now'
In sure @HollyGoLoudly feels similar!

Thanks *MRex'
I hope you are right!

What a horrid thread. So many posters have forgotten or not experienced what it is like to be a new mother and hear conflicting advice from those around you, to have raging hormones and a loss of self. Whatever happened to being kind and supportive?

Each mum needs to do what is right for both them and their own baby and make their own assessment of risk- this isn't going to mean the same thing for everyone. Of course in an ideal world we would follow guidelines to the letter but we don't live in an ideal world. Lots of posters seem happy to break guidelines with regards to cosleeping but not anything else.
For example I have three children. With baby 1 I followed the guidelines with relative ease, he was happy to sleep around noise and in his own cot. Baby 2 and 3 were not, and as a result had to be put up to bed from 10 weeks or would cry all evening. I spent 2 weeks in a dark bedroom with them, but this had implications on my mental health and was not attainable as baby 1 who was then a toddler was waking in the evenings and needed me. I made the decision to leave the room to tend to my son and to do things for me like eat my dinner whilst checking on the babies regularly. This wasn't without risks but I assessed risk and felt like this was the best choice for me and my children. I am glad I had not posted on here to ask for advice as I would have felt terrible about the abuse that has been thrown at the poor op.

It seems like op has left the thread but if you do see this I am sure you are a great mum. The fact you are seeking advice is a sign of that. In my experience a bedtime routine doesn't make any difference until they're a bit older and to be honest I think what we do has little impact on how they sleep, if you have a bad sleeper it is unlikely to be because of their routine when they were a newborn.

@LisaSimpsonsbff I think you made your points excellently and been kind and considerate of others opinions when others have not.

If he has CMPA then the poor love will be in pain, no wonder he needs to be held. Tilted bed and change of diet can all take time to work before the babies are ok; if you haven't yet met the pediatrician, hopefully you know some babies with CMPA also have egg and soya allergies, so it's good to check them all at once. Others might have good advice for you on CMPA if you do a separate thread on it. See how he is when you know his diet has been sorted for a few weeks, I hope he'll naturally start to sleep longer then.

@Newishhname - the NHS gave me guidelines on safe cosleeping and we followed those, please don't make assumptions about everyone based on one poster talking about having the baby on her chest.

MRex I feel terrible that I hadn't thought of it before, i thought he had reflux. Poor baby. I've been dairy and soy free for 2 weeks now. Nappies are improving (they look less like Hulk shite now!) And he slept for 5 hrs straight last night! He's such a happy baby.
Thank you for your kindness and help. MN is a new mothers best friend and worst enemy it seems to me.

It’s entirely up to you, guidelines aren’t laws and you can responsibly judge your own situation. I kept my daughter downstairs until she started fussing after her evening bottle. I didn’t really buy into trying to make her sleep through normal noise so when she started grizzling and not settling I started putting her upstairs. I don’t remember exactly how old she was but it was before she was 4 months. I so vividly remember the first night watching Child 44 with my husband, the monitor beside us turned up loud, and taking turns to go up and check on her literally every 5 minutes. It was the right decision, she settled fine and then I would go to bed about 9/10pm. She started sleeping through the night from her evening bottle until around 5am at 11 weeks so it must have been around that time that we started putting her upstairs.