To be thinking of putting my 4 week old upstairs to bed?

[m4rdybum]

Asking here because I'd like a wider range
of views, other than the group of Mumsnet posters who only go by exact guidelines and have no room for manoeuvre. Also because I'm open to being called unreasonable if it means I'm more successful in raising my DD.

DD is 3 weeks old. DH goes back to work just after she turns 4 weeks.

We've started toying with the idea of getting her used to being upstairs for "bedtime" (starting when DH goes back to work), which at the minute would be around her 8/9pm bottle. I also totally get that a routine probably won't stick with her for a while - but we're quite lucky that she already has her own predictable feeding routine on the go (for now) - it's more for us at the minute.

Me and DH usually go to bed around 10pm. She currently sleeps in her Moses basket in the living room and gets taken upstairs with us.

I know of the recommendation for babies up to 6 months to sleep in the same room as parents day and night, to help reduce the risk of SIDS and want to stress that of course I'm hyper aware of this and don't want it to happen. DD sleeps next to our bed and will do so until 6 months.

But I'm curious as to who follows this to the rule when it comes to start thinking about a bedtime? There's a lot of kids in my family and most have started going up to bed between 1 & 2 months old.

We, of course, have a baby monitor and also would check on her regularly until we went up to bed. It would just be nice to not have to worry so much about being quiet with her in the room.

Has anyone else done this? Any recommendations? Warnings?

@MRex

The part about not relying on OP or the DH for sleep? Honestly, no I don't think it's strange. At this moment in time, I would give my right arm for my DS not to be reliant on me to get to sleep. It doesn't make me any less of a mother.

That’s a bit like my HV telling me my night owl DD (ages 2-3 months) should go to bed at 7pm because “she’ll find it easier when she goes to school”. A 7pm bedtime would not have worked for any of us, so it didn’t happen. She adjusted naturally when she started fill time school aged 3.

You don’t need to start ignoring your baby at 4 weeks in order for them to be independent sleepers as toddlers or beyond. Baby humans are amazingly adaptable. Society places such ridiculous shit on parents. It’s utterly bizarre.

Again, you didn't cosleep safely. I understand why you did what you did but it wasn't within the safe cosleeping rules (I think that's important for other people reading this thread - the Lullaby Trust say that cosleeping can be made safer but that nighttime chest sleeping is never safe).

I coslept with DS out of desperation a number of times when he was around four-five months and his sleep was so awful I felt I couldn't find another way. It went against every instinct I had, it felt incredibly dangerous (and I actually did follow all the safe cosleeping guidelines) and I stopped it and worked very hard to get him sleeping in a cot, which actually meant less sleep for me but meant I didn't wake up in a panic that I'd smothered him hourly. I didn't find I stayed as still as I should have (and I was exclusively breastfeeding at that point) and it instinctively felt unsafe to me. I can't even imagine cosleeping with a newborn (and, statistically, it is much riskier to do so than with a baby over three months). Again, I don't expect everyone else to feel like that and I don't judge them for feeling differently - I would like, but have no hope of, the same courtesy from others.

The thing is can’t teach a baby to self-settle. It’s well documented that it is developmental. Much like you can’t teach a child to be dry in the night. It just happens. For some that means their newborns don’t need any input to sleep, for many, many others it means that they need help to sleep.

Again, does anyone here still need rocking or breastfeeding to sleep?

She talks about deliberately limiting cuddles, which is hugely damaging to a baby at that age

Reminder - someone has already posted on this thread about her baby who spent several weeks in NICU and there will almost certainly be others reading whose babies are/have been in NICU. Their cuddles are limited by necessity. How do you think reading comments like the above makes them feel? There will also be others who are struggling to bond in the early weeks; reading that this will be permanently damaging their baby will be piling on the guilt when they already feel awful.

A bit more kindness and understanding that there are lots of different situations out there wouldn't go amiss on this thread.

Those are very fucking weird things for a mum of a 4 WEEK old baby to say.

Let me provide a bit of clarification for my post. When I said that it was "more for us at the moment", I actually meant the routine was more for us, with DH going back to work. We're obviously still living in the world of new born parents at the minute and in lucky if I'm dressed by 1pm and even luckier if I manage to get upstairs for a shower and my PJs by 10pm. So no, I didn't mean so me and DH could sit and watch films on Netflix and forget we had a baby. I meant it in a more functional sense.

Again, I'll say that he would be in our room for an hour by herself (with checks). We're not talking about putting her in her own too all night.

I'm sat cuddling my daughter now, which I tend to do all morning (hence the fact I don't get dressed for a while) - but obviously you only judged me on one comment where I said I don't cuddle my daughter to sleep all the time (although it is 9 times out of 10). Other times she is fed to sleep or just falls asleep while she's in her basket (which we put her in when we're shovelling in some food into ourselves).

I was fully prepared to be told to wait, follow guidelines etc. and I you saw my previous post, you will see that I actually realise maybe 4 weeks is too young at the moment and I will wait until she's 2-3 months. I did not expect to be called barbaric, accused (pretty much) of child abuse and told (indirectly and directly) that I'm a bad mother.

You're absolutely right it is important to keep MH at the forefront of people's minds and ask the question when needed. But that's not happened in this thread and instead been used as a stick to beat me with by some posters.

I didn't start this thread thinking I was a good mum in the first place (because I'm still brand new) but I'm certainly leaving it thinking I'm not good enough.

That’s fine. I didn’t have your fears. I’ve studied human development. Cave dwelling humans didn’t have separate bedrooms for their young. Many families in different parts of the world don’t now. The Victorians instilled “be seen but not heard” and introduced cots and prams and wet nurses for babies (those who could afford them were clearly superior to those who couldn’t) and that became the thing to aspire to. Our understanding has improved so much since then and yet this weird “don’t love them too much” persists. Look how many people on here associate “discipline” (meaning learning) with “punishment”. Everything gets warped in the pursuit of instant results. And it does our species a massive disservice.

You don’t need to start ignoring your baby at 4 weeks in order for them to be independent sleepers as toddlers or beyond.

"Ignoring your baby" 😂😂

I started puttig my baby upstairs to bed with a monitor around 8 weeks old... She wakes up frequently until we go up anyway usually so doesn't get left alone for long. It's not like before this she was never in a room alone for sleep I would leave the room to make drinks or food or use the bathroom. Just do what feels right for you.

I'm certainly leaving it thinking I'm not good enough.

Hope people are proud of themselves.

Cave dwelling humans didn’t have separate bedrooms for their young. Many families in different parts of the world don’t now. The Victorians instilled “be seen but not heard” and introduced cots and prams and wet nurses for babies (those who could afford them were clearly superior to those who couldn’t) and that became the thing to aspire to. Our understanding has improved so much since then and yet this weird “don’t love them too much” persists.

This!!!!!! ALL OF THIS!!!!!!!!

Oh there's no doubt that cosleeping is the norm for mammals - have you spent any time with pigs, for instance? All the little piglets sleep curled into mum. Of course, she overlays and kills some of them with alarming regularity...

Again, I don't have any issue with people cosleeping - I know lots of people who do it and are very happy they do. But let's not pretend it's completely risk-free; it isn't.

And I promise you, my decision that I didn't feel safe sharing a sleep surface (he slept in a next to me crib until he outgrew it and that was wonderful and I do really miss having him next to me now, so it wasn't about not being close) isn't because I'm scared of 'loving him too much'. I'm very confident that I couldn't love him more.

@m4rdybum

The fact that you are willing to ask for help/advice shows that you ARE a good mum. I'm sorry you didn't get it from some posters on this thread. There is some good advice from both sides if you filter out the nonsense.

for u. Enjoy this precious time, whatever you decide to do.

I didn't start this thread thinking I was a good mum in the first place (because I'm still brand new) but I'm certainly leaving it thinking I'm not good enough.

OP. I'm sorry that people have used you as a way to have an argument; I'm sorry if I've been one of them. Cuddle your baby, feel your love for her and know that of course that's enough. Make the decision that is right for you about sleeping. If you really feel like you're getting things wrong talk to your health visitor, for reassurance as much as for instruction. You've got such a little baby and you're doing brilliantly.

this weird “don’t love them too much

Again, why go to this kind of statement?? OP doesn't love her child enough because she wants to put her in her own bed, asleep, for at most an hour? Behave.

Cave dwelling humans didn’t have separate bedrooms
No, they didn't have rooms at all. Or beds. Or vaccinations. Or formula as an option. Or jobs to go to. Or live past 30. Not sure this is the bar we want to set.

the Lullaby Trust say that cosleeping can be made safer but that nighttime chest sleeping is never safe

Actually, what they say is:

While having a baby sleep on mother’s (or father’s) chest whilst parents are awake has not been shown to be a risk, and such close contact is in fact beneficial, sleeping a baby on their front when unsupervised gives rise to a greatly increased risk of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS) also known as cot death. There is no evidence to suggest that this risk is less if the baby sleeps prone (on their front) on the chest of a sleeping adult.

“There is no evidence” does not mean it’s ever been stufied properly, never mind that it’s been proven beyond all doubt to be more dangerous. And the use of the word “supervised” is interesting too.

Again, why go to this kind of statement?? OP doesn't love her child enough because she wants to put her in her own bed, asleep, for at most an hour? Behave.

No. I was making a general statement.

@m4rdybum you are totally normal and a great mum. Mn slides into bizarro world with alarming frequency when a few topics are mentioned, baby sleep is one of them. Sorry about the lunatic fringe, we try to keep them locked in a cupboard but the deckers keep getting out..,

No, they didn't have rooms at all. Or beds. Or vaccinations. Or formula as an option. Or jobs to go to. Or live past 30. Not sure this is the bar we want to set.

Have a read of “Sapiens”. Western society (and others) has developed away from our biological and psychological needs and it’s killing us. What’s the point in living past 30/40/50 if it makes us so fucking miserable?! That’s not advancement!

• feckers

What’s the point in living past 30/40/50 if it makes us so fucking miserable?!

I'm over 30 and definitely not miserable. I have a 4 month old who doesn't sleep so the idea of being able to read a book is slightly hilarious to me at the moment. I do accept that there are downsides to modern living, which I guess is what the book is about, but I still don't agree with your argument in relation to what the OP is asking.

You don’t need to start ignoring your baby at 4 weeks in order for them to be independent sleepers as toddlers or beyond. Exactly! We had a very easy transition to independent sleep at two years old, because DS was older, more aware, and developmentally ready to make that step.

It’s not what the book is about.

This is interesting:

academic.oup.com/emph/article/2014/1/146/1846850?maxtoshow=&hits=25&RESULTFORMAT=&andorexacttitle=and&andorexacttitleabs=and&fulltext=breastfeeding%252C+breastmilk%252C+baby+friendly+initiative&andorexactfulltext=or&searchid=1&usestrictdates=yes&resourcetype=HWCIT&ct

And this.

journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0107799

@PoutySprout

The first one is interesting, I had heard about SIDS being more prevelant in Western cultures but had never read a paper on it. Thanks for the link.