To ask if private school is worth it?

[Secondaryschooldilemma]

Regular poster name changed for this post as it may be outing, I have talked to a lot of people IRL about this today.

My DD11 has today been accepted for a place at a brilliant private school. However, we applied for a bursary and were unsuccessful as other girls did better in the exam and there is only a small amount of money to go around. We have been offered a fee paying place at approximately £1,100 per month. We don't have a huge household income, we bring home around £4k a month between us and our outgoings are around £2400. That includes everything except holidays and fun stuff. Some months are better, some are worse. We have looked at where we can make savings without sacrificing our quality of life and I think we could manage it. I am self employed and could theoretically bring this in as extra a month if I work hard and market my business more. We also have six months before she starts to start putting money away so we can have a bit of a cushion to start with.

We currently rent and have no savings or assets which would be a reason for not spending 12k a year on school fees. This could be saved and used towards a house deposit giving us all more security as a family. However, our local secondary is diabolical. OFSTED inadequate in 2015, still requires improvement in 2017. I know OFSTED is not the be all and end all but tin the report there is so much focus on bad behaviour and disruptive behaviour in lessons and I don't want that for DD. All of the parents of her friends acknowledge it is a dire school but are happy because their children are bright and well behaved they will "survive it". I don't want DD to survive it, I want her to grow and develop into the very best she can possibly be and have a great experience. The three schools we have out on our state application form we are out of catchment for and they are over subscribed or have been in previous years. There is a chance DD will have no school offer at all, or the nearest one which has spare places which again I would not be happy about.

My concerns are that things could change and she could start and then we could not make the fees after a year or two. I'd rather she did n't get to experience it at all than she had it and we took it away. It will be stressful worrying every month about having to pay such a huge amount of money. We also have a DS9 who we would also want to offer the same opportunity, but he is sporty and practical, he struggles academically and I m not sure he would pass the entrance exam for a selective school. The two we looked at for DD have a very competitive, academically focussed entrance procedure. I hope that doesn't sound horrible, he has completely different strengths to DD and what is right in a school for her will not be or him as they are very different.

I love this school, I want DD to go there more than anything. I love the ethos, it is single sex if that is relevant and I feel her talents will be nurtured there and she will leave believing she can do absolutely anything.

So my questions are, if you have DC at private school, did you make sacrifices and is it worth it? If you comfortably afford private school fees, would you still do it in our situation?

If you rent why didn't/don't you just move to rent a place near a better state school?

Our DD is currently in Y9, so in her 3rd year at a private school, DS is in Y7, but we moved him to the same school for Y6 (for all sorts of reasons, one of which was because of how much progress we'd seen in her). Yes we've made sacrifices, we're currently only paying the interest element of our mortgage, and we've reduced our pension contributions. I also increased my work hours from 3 to 4 days.

I don't think it's possible to measure its worth, as there's nothing to compare against. We've seen DD progress, her self-confidence has improved, and she's set herself some lofty ambitions. She may well have done all these things at the local comp. Her best friends who attend the local comp are also doing well, and have similar lofty ambitions. Who knows? But we've never regretted our decision.

DS is another matter entirely, he needed a smaller school where he couldn't disappear into the background (this had already started happening in his small primary school with a lot of big characters, but a generally well behaved class). Again, we've never regretted our decision to move him, he's getting a lot of support, and engaging in so many more things than he has before. He'll always have issues (ASD), and given the squeeze on state schools" resources at the moment, we weren't convinced he'd get the support he needed at secondary (he certainly wasn't getting it at primary).

I don't envy your position, it's a very difficult decision to make, but crucially, I don't think there is a definitive right or wrong. What does your DD think?

Is moving an option? Given that you have two children, (and I guess you also wouldn’t want your son going to the local school) you’re going to have to make a decision about him soon and I’d definitely factor that in to this decision. Otherwise you risk spending lots on sending his sister to a great school (and potentially making family financial sacrifices that will affect your son) and then he has to go to the local school which you’ve said is not good.

I have one DD at an independent school, but I wouldn't do it given your finances:

1. you have another child who you cannot afford to give the same opportunity to. You might feel this is reasonable but your DS might blame this inequality of opportunity at a future date
2. you are taking this decision based on a poor choice of local schools - you would be better paying a little more in rent to find decent school for both your children
3. I know I will be slammed for this: not all independent schools are created equal. A decent public school will set you back almost twice what you are talking about paying.

To clarify what I’ve said, I don’t think your daughter should miss out just so your son doesn’t feel left out, but if the local school is so bad that you might move to avoid your son having to go there, it’s important to consider that now.

1. It depends on the school.

1. If I earned half what you do, I'd still be doing it.

No, I would have moved to an area with better schools (which I did, saving myself £250k of school fees which I can invest in my children's future). To spend that amount monthly when you don't own a home is crazy. Earn the extra, move or hire a tutor and pay for extra curricular and buy a house where there are good schools so BOTH children can get the education they need, not one at the expense of the other!

Agree that moving house might be a better option?

If it is a really good private school - and they are not all great and if the other options are crap then I would say do it.
I have 2 in private - one 100% Bursary, the other 80% but if I could afford it I would happily pay. Both schools are top notch in the ethos and opportunity and the expectations are so much higher than state in our area. I just feel so very lucky and if you can possibly do it / then do.

everyone that sends their child to a private school is going to say its worth it or they wouldn't do it.

Do you have a decent pension and a plan for retirement as I'd say that's important.

This is not a good idea.
1, you can't afford it- seriously, over 25% of income on school fees for one child? That's daft. What about all the other costs?
2, what about your ds? You aren't going to be able to fund private school for him as well- what will you do when he needs a secondary place?
3, what happens if your business gets into trouble or your partner loses their job? You don't have scope to save up enough money so that even if that did happen, you could keep your dd at a fee paying school.
4, I would have really disliked my parents had they decided that paying fees for my sibling to have a private education was the family priority, and we all- me included- needed to make sacrifices for that to happen.

Is there a reason moving to an area of better schools isn't an option?

We sent our eldest to a private school. He did get a bursary and we worked out that we could afford it, but then the fees kept increasing by way more than my pay increased. Said DS didn't really benefit from the education either. He's currently unemployed and sitting in our sofa.

I appreciate why you want to do it, and given the circumstances it sounds like a good option.
The drawback is that you can only just manage the fees, and can you guarantee your earnings will be at least what you bring in now.
Might there be additional costs for activities like school trips?
Moving to an area with better schools seems a good suggestion. Is your DD younger than 11? Some areas have grammar schools.
If you don't give it a try, might you regret it?
Does your DD want to go there?

It is worth it in my opinion. Especially when local schools aren’t great and your particular child would benefit from a more rigorous environment.

Agree with PPs that another solution is moving to a different area with better schools.
However if that’s not feasible or desirable for whatever reason, I’d still go for it.

Keep reapplying for the bursaries if you can, many schools allow you to apply each year and you may well be successful next time if so. It’s worth clarifying this with them.

FWIW There is a real mix of students at DDs school, some who have lots of money and some who don’t but who have prioritised their childrens’ education and budget accordingly. All of the kids get on and there isn’t any distinction even among the parents etc.

But would you think it reasonable that this opportunity only be available to one of the 2 children on affordability grounds?

Honestly yes they are so worth it.

Part of my job is to oversee the ensuing of a nationwide schools competition. We've just done this years and, again, about 80% of the finalists come from private schools. We blind shortlist so we don't know this till the results, but the difference in quality is phenomenal.

However on your salary I'm not sure it's justifiable. With that expendable income you could save hard for a couple of years and a buy (outside London), which might be a better choice for the family as a whole.

No way, far better idea to move where there are better schools.

I think people who pay for private school need their heads testing tbh

My issue is what you do for one you need to do for the other.

Private education is more than results. Your child is only capable as their cognitive ability allows. A private school gives your child more chance to achieve that. It also gives them more opportunities in developing the self.

However if it's like most who send their child privately is concerned about results then I'm sure your child will do well wherever they go if they are bright.

Mine were not A* students by far and the private school didn't leave them to mooch along they were helped to reach their potential. I actually feel private school helps them more than very bright kids. They are also dyslexic so got support that was denied in state. That's the main reason we moved them.

I'd not put yourself under the stress of meeting the fees. That could destroy family life.

i went to a private school as did my husband. i got good grades but think id have got them anywhere as i was academic. i resented going to school wih others who were far richer and got brand new minis when they turned 17 but my parents sacrificed things to send me even when i said id rather not go.

every job I've had ive been in a minority who went to private school so i dont think i have much of an edge.

my parents should've saved the fees and gave it to me in cash. i could have bought a house outright!

i am now a teacher in secondary comprehensive.

my husband feels the same. we would not send our children to one even if we had the money.

Thank you for all the insights so far, it's very helpful to read everyone's advice and perspectives!

Moving isn't really an option - we had to move last year after 9 years in the same property as the landlord was selling. I was self employed, DH was a stay at home dad and it as a nightmare finding anywhere as we were seen as a financial risk, most letting agents wanted 7k upfront! We live in an area where there is not much rented property available and I didn't want to move the DC from their excellent primary school. We live in a lovely area, there are very few areas surrounding the city we live in where I would live! I have no idea why our local secondary is so awful, the primaries are fantastic. DH has lived here all his life and his family are just around the corner, his parents help us out with childcare if one of us is running late and they would nt be able to do that if we moved more than walking distance from them. We are very very lucky to have secured this tenancy and I really don't want to live anywhere else!, there are too many horrible areas round here.I think the environment we live in every single day is more important than the school as it impacts all of us.

I don't think we are educating DD at the expense of DS. The two private schools we are interested in, one is all girls, the other DD didn't even get an interview and she is an academic high achiever. I honestly don't think he would get through the entrance exam without a lot of tutoring/coaching for it and I m not sure I agree with that as he may struggle with the standard once he gets there. Idon't want to set him up to fail as he lacks confidence academically as it is. It is a very academically focussed independent school, I know not all of them are but this one is. I am not being dismissive of DS, he has many, many talents and of course I want the best education for him. We do have another local option but it has no results until this summer, this could be an option for him but seemed a bit of a risk for DD with no GCSE/A level results to look at. The school at the other end of our small town (about 2 miles away) is OFSTED outstanding and has a drama audition entry scheme for those who have children talented in that area so he could go forward for that. As a selection criteria I believe it comes above catchment. We have applied for this school for DD but she would not go for the drama auditions and she is unlikely to get a place as we are in the 8th category on their selection criteria.

As a self employed person my income is yo an extent determined by how hard I work and also the opportunities I seek out. I deliver vocational training to adults, the sector has been hit hard in the last year but I am adding additional income streams in related areas. Potentially, by the time it comes to DS going to school I could have increased my income, in previous years I was bringing in 6k a month which was why DH could be a SAHD. It seems silly to sacrifice the opportunity for DD on the basis of what may or may not happen in the next two years. If I had a job where my income was the same every month with no promotion upcoming I could base a decision on that, but there is a chance my income could increase again in the coming years. Or conversely, take a huge drop!

Sorry if I ve drip-fed here, I was nt sure how much to put in my original post!

When I started reading this thread I thought you only had one child and I thought yes I'd go for it.

When I realised you had two children I thought NO WAY. No WAY!

Move to somewhere with a better state school. YES it's a pain in the arse moving, but my god you will save TENS of thousands of pounds.

Seriously I think you're mad to even be considering it.

No it's not worth it if you can't afford it for both children and you can't. Don't beat yourself up about that as the majority of us can't either. What can you do to do the best for your DC with the resources available to you? Either move house to an area with better schools or take your local school now and supplement with tutoring, extra curricular and holidays. Also that private school place at full fees will always be there should your circumstances change. Give the local school a chance

Also to those who have asked DD's opinion, she very much wants to go, she loves it (two taster days, open day, exam morning and interview) but also understands we aren't rich and we were hoping for a bursary.

In your circumstances I would rather send her to the private school and struggle financially than send her to the shit school tbh.