To ask if private school is worth it?

[Secondaryschooldilemma]

Regular poster name changed for this post as it may be outing, I have talked to a lot of people IRL about this today.

My DD11 has today been accepted for a place at a brilliant private school. However, we applied for a bursary and were unsuccessful as other girls did better in the exam and there is only a small amount of money to go around. We have been offered a fee paying place at approximately £1,100 per month. We don't have a huge household income, we bring home around £4k a month between us and our outgoings are around £2400. That includes everything except holidays and fun stuff. Some months are better, some are worse. We have looked at where we can make savings without sacrificing our quality of life and I think we could manage it. I am self employed and could theoretically bring this in as extra a month if I work hard and market my business more. We also have six months before she starts to start putting money away so we can have a bit of a cushion to start with.

We currently rent and have no savings or assets which would be a reason for not spending 12k a year on school fees. This could be saved and used towards a house deposit giving us all more security as a family. However, our local secondary is diabolical. OFSTED inadequate in 2015, still requires improvement in 2017. I know OFSTED is not the be all and end all but tin the report there is so much focus on bad behaviour and disruptive behaviour in lessons and I don't want that for DD. All of the parents of her friends acknowledge it is a dire school but are happy because their children are bright and well behaved they will "survive it". I don't want DD to survive it, I want her to grow and develop into the very best she can possibly be and have a great experience. The three schools we have out on our state application form we are out of catchment for and they are over subscribed or have been in previous years. There is a chance DD will have no school offer at all, or the nearest one which has spare places which again I would not be happy about.

My concerns are that things could change and she could start and then we could not make the fees after a year or two. I'd rather she did n't get to experience it at all than she had it and we took it away. It will be stressful worrying every month about having to pay such a huge amount of money. We also have a DS9 who we would also want to offer the same opportunity, but he is sporty and practical, he struggles academically and I m not sure he would pass the entrance exam for a selective school. The two we looked at for DD have a very competitive, academically focussed entrance procedure. I hope that doesn't sound horrible, he has completely different strengths to DD and what is right in a school for her will not be or him as they are very different.

I love this school, I want DD to go there more than anything. I love the ethos, it is single sex if that is relevant and I feel her talents will be nurtured there and she will leave believing she can do absolutely anything.

So my questions are, if you have DC at private school, did you make sacrifices and is it worth it? If you comfortably afford private school fees, would you still do it in our situation?

I think you have to think long term and move to where education is better in a state school, I know how difficult that would be for you but it is the best solution to your problem. This would benefit both your children.
Don’t write your son off mine didn’t start working until year 9 and he did well in GCSE’s. His results were in the top 10 in his school but you would never have guessed at 11.
He’s doing well in A levels now, interesting to note that Universities give lower offers to take into account the difference in Education, so your offer in a private school may be AAA* whereas a good state schhol AABfor the same course.

I helped a lot with his GCSE ‘s helping him revise and got on line tutors.
At A level you can move school in our area we moved to a better state school then.
If you are in business you might hit a bad year and the stress wouldn’t be worth it.

Both my dcs are at private school. I wouldn't do this. No way. I love my kids equally. And when dh and i are no longer around, i still want them to have that sibling bond. This would utterly destroy it.

Fundamentally you can't afford it. i have just totted up another £2,400 that we are spending this year on top of the £15,000 of fees. If we couldn't afford it, i honestly wouldn't do it, because there would be no quality of life or peace of mind for the family.

I would rather pay for additional tutoring and activities after school. Not the same but wouldn't destroy my family either.

.The school at the other end of our small town (about 2 miles away) is OFSTED outstanding and has a drama audition entry scheme for those who have children talented in that area so he could go forward for that

How do you propose to pay for that?

If you take £1,100 per month and save it up you will have a £7K deposit in no time, and if you add half of that to your rent moving forward you can upgrade your living situation and send your kids to a better school. You get to choose where to move, it’s not like a lottery where you could unwittingly end up in a terrible area. It’s woeth driving an extra 15 min or whatever to see the grandparents.

Also my kids go to private school and theee are a range of economic backgrounds but the majority are quite comfortable and a fair few are super wealthy. Everyone is friendly and kind but the kids do notice the difference. We live in a perfectly nice house and do lots of holidays and nice things but our kids think of us as being on the lower end of the spectrum. It’s not easy to teach them gratitude and humility when they’re jealous bc Charlotte is going to her house in Chamonix for half term and we are going to the Lake District.

Also I just had to pay £220 for after school clubs (not strictly necessary but they all do them) and £150 to stock up the new PE kit the school has mandated, and I will soon have to pay £499 for a netball trip (again not required but my DD loves netball and I’d hate for her to be left out), plus probably an additional £75 for other costs associated with the trip. She was recently invited to go to a theatre performance with friends — £45 right there. Then there’s my DS, who needs three separate types of PE shoes each year — regular trainers, Astro trainers, and rugby boots for grass — that’s £100 right there. He’s in primary so he goes to probably 15 birthday parties per year, and the done thing is a gift in the £10-15 range. (Then when we throw him a perfectly nice party at home with games it is considered not as nice as all of the soft play/laser tag/trampoline parties the other kids have.) We are perhaps more frugal than some other families but we can comfortably pay for these extras. If we couldn’t I wouldn’t want my DC to see all of the other kids doing all of the music lessons, sports, horse riding, coding, or whatever they’re into. Also at our primary school everyone, but everyone, tutors for the 11+. It is a very competitive school and students are vying for places at the best boarding schools and London day schools. If you don’t tutor your child is at a real disadvantage— that’s an extra £80+ per week in the months leading up to the test. I know your DD will be in secondary but I guarantee there will be just as many, if not more, extra expenses. I’m sorry but you can’t afford this for one child. At best you would be putting everything toward DD and even if DS went to state school you would have no money left for him to do extra things— how is that fair?? It will come back to bite you.

We use private bc you have to live on the doorstep of the good state schools near here and we don’t. We love our neighborhood but if we couldn’t comfortably afford private I would in a heartbeat move to an area with access to good state schools. You are fortunate to have that option, many people do not.

One of the saddest threads I read on MN was a poster who had reached the financial end. Every line of credit had been exhausted, she was already behind with fees. Her DD was going to have to leave a school which she had loved in the term before her GCSEs.

When she had started at the school there had been no financial worries. DH had a good job. Everything fine.

Then there was redundancy. Some MH problems (possibly triggered by financial stresses). The whole house of cards fell down.

My DCs went to the local dire state secondary. Each has achieved according to their ability.

We have experienced redundancy, health problems but never had the extra worry of school fees. Uniform isnt expensive, school trips are affordable. No matter what the DCs could always go to school.

Comes down to what important to you - we have two kids, one is in private and the other will go at 4. To us - where we are, there are no great state schools around and the change in my daughter in a year is astounding, her confidence is amazing and she was a shy child before - yes it’s a lot and sacrifices will have to be made (we don’t ski but there are some classmates of my daughters that own several ski chalets) and we have one holiday a year, but for us - it’s worth it.

We also have a DS9 who we would also want to offer the same opportunity, but he is sporty and practical, he struggles academically

So you want to spend all your money on private education for your other child ( who is bright and also has the potential do well at a state school).

This is madness.

Imagine how your son would feel reading this post as an adult. Sounds like you have written him off.

If you are renting move now to a better area

There are insurance schemes you can pay into to cover school fees if you lose your income.

Comes down to what important to you

Well, not just that. Our nearest good private school has fees of ~ £15K per year. So how would someone on the average salary round here (~£20k) afford it? Doesn't matter how important it was, you can't spend more than your entire salary on school fees can you?

You’re in a tricky position as probably the private experience would be better for your daughter and she’s now been exposed to that but I honestly don’t think you can afford it. If it was just one child, you would be financially very tight but with two, it just doesn’t seem fair to sacrifice family finances and security for one child at the expense of the other. The fact that you are renting compounds that even further. You would be one big, unexpected bill away from having major problems paying the fees. I’ve had a relative that had to take his children out of private school because he could no longer afford the fees. That is far worse than not starting in the first place.

We are on a significantly higher household income and I wouldn’t contemplate it for my children for secondary unless I had a good lump sum saved before starting and I am saving for that from babyhood. We will take a hard look at finances nearer the time and if we can afford it, great. If not, we’ll have savings for other things.I’d love to be able to do prep school as well as the opportunities they provide locally are amazing. However, for me the financial stretch and risk wouldn’t be worth it. Sometimes you have to accept you can’t have everything you might want unfortunately.

Insurance to cover fees because of sickness are around £55/month

Insurance to cover unemployment would cost around £50/month but this would only pay out for a maximum of 1 year. This would not cover a general decline in business as the OP has already experienced.

This is a wonderful idea but to be honest it sounds like you can't afford it. And what will happen to DS when he's of secondary school age?

As others have suggested you might be better moving to a different area that has a better state school and paying for tutors. If after a year or two you aren't happy with things perhaps you could revisit the private school idea?

My children both went to a private school. One bright but lazy, but no trouble at all. He drifted through doing enough to get by but not drawing any attention through bad behaviour etc. Planning to stay on after GCSEs for A levels. GCSE results were so poor they wouldn't keep him on. Had to then search around at the end of August for an alternative. My second child not so bright but more extrovert did reasonably well but not outstanding by any means.

So to answer your question, I would, as everyone else is suggesting move to a good school catchment. I probably spent at least 200k in school fees. In hindsight, no would never do it again.

If you can afford it then do it. I went to private school and not only did well as a result but have also had doors opened for me in the same city later in life. As usual, it’s not what you know but who you know.

Some wise advice on here. Realistically your end bill including inflation will be 140k. which is 20k a year average. Private schools are raising fees 5% a year which has attracted some criticism. They are waffling about bursaries, deprived children . I am so glad I only have one more bill to pay. Well uni. will be 20k a year minimum.

I also wonder how long it will be before some government slaps VAT of 20% on it. Labour are looking at it now.

We have children joining the school throughout the years because the state system has not been suitable, usually the ones that struggle, not the bright ones.

Just to add DH may have gone to one of the best public schools in the country but his sis was state educated. She is an incredibly difficult woman and I wonder how much stems from this unfairness.

Yes I think it's absolutely worth it in your circumstances. But. I'd take a cold hard look at your total per annum costs for private schools. Make sure you include absolutely everything and divide by 12 the monthly cost. Look at what savings you have now and what you can put away. I'd plan for a year's fees in savings now.

Can you rent a room out? Can you rent your driveway out? What other sources of income can you get?

It will boil down to the maths and affordability for a go or no go decision.

Is there a 13+ entry too?

@NCjustforthisthread we have one holiday a year

I'll swap if you like. My last holiday was a week in a tent in Cornwall 7 years ago in the pouring rain. That's school fees for you.

Do you think she will be happy with all those posh people. Buy a house ffs

Admittedly it was some years back, but I went to Private school and hated it. I just didn't fit in. All girls school and the pressure to achieve affected me for years. My parents weren't rich either, but they scrimped and scraped to get me there. There was always a bill for something and I felt awful asking my parents for something else that I needed. There was a definite divide between the "haves and have nots" even back then. I didn't go on holiday either, my parents couldn't afford it, and I dreaded the return to school when all my classmates had been somewhere exotic and I hadn't.
I actually rebelled, and although I was clever, I didn't achieve what I could have because I was miserable. Teachers lost interest in me because I wasn't going to Uni. I did actually go, but in my early 20s after I took extra exams.
We have a similar income to you, but had 3 dc, and would never have sent just one anyway ( not that I would have sent them to Private school anyway)

My DCs all were state educated. We moved to send them to decent schools, and everyone of them went to Uni, and has a decent career.

We invest 25% or our income on our sons schooling, and feel it's worth every penny. But we only have one child so are keen to give him the best opportunities in life we can. We have had to make sacrifices, but I wouldn't change a thing, He's not just benefiting academically the pastoral care is exceptional and the ethos throughout the whole school is amazing, hard work is rewarded, pupils respect each other and the teachers and they have zero tolerance on misbehavior.
It's certainly a different story at our local state school which was rated as Inadequate by Ofsted and pupils have a bad attitude towards learning and their behavior is not managed well by teachers!

Despite the increasing fees it's still a no brainer!

There is such a misconception about private education being posh. Yes there are a few posh ones but in the main just parents desperate about the state education in their area.

You will see far more posh cars, suntans from exotic hols. in the state sector than in the private one. Excluding Eton, Harrow etc.