To ask if private school is worth it?

[Secondaryschooldilemma]

Regular poster name changed for this post as it may be outing, I have talked to a lot of people IRL about this today.

My DD11 has today been accepted for a place at a brilliant private school. However, we applied for a bursary and were unsuccessful as other girls did better in the exam and there is only a small amount of money to go around. We have been offered a fee paying place at approximately £1,100 per month. We don't have a huge household income, we bring home around £4k a month between us and our outgoings are around £2400. That includes everything except holidays and fun stuff. Some months are better, some are worse. We have looked at where we can make savings without sacrificing our quality of life and I think we could manage it. I am self employed and could theoretically bring this in as extra a month if I work hard and market my business more. We also have six months before she starts to start putting money away so we can have a bit of a cushion to start with.

We currently rent and have no savings or assets which would be a reason for not spending 12k a year on school fees. This could be saved and used towards a house deposit giving us all more security as a family. However, our local secondary is diabolical. OFSTED inadequate in 2015, still requires improvement in 2017. I know OFSTED is not the be all and end all but tin the report there is so much focus on bad behaviour and disruptive behaviour in lessons and I don't want that for DD. All of the parents of her friends acknowledge it is a dire school but are happy because their children are bright and well behaved they will "survive it". I don't want DD to survive it, I want her to grow and develop into the very best she can possibly be and have a great experience. The three schools we have out on our state application form we are out of catchment for and they are over subscribed or have been in previous years. There is a chance DD will have no school offer at all, or the nearest one which has spare places which again I would not be happy about.

My concerns are that things could change and she could start and then we could not make the fees after a year or two. I'd rather she did n't get to experience it at all than she had it and we took it away. It will be stressful worrying every month about having to pay such a huge amount of money. We also have a DS9 who we would also want to offer the same opportunity, but he is sporty and practical, he struggles academically and I m not sure he would pass the entrance exam for a selective school. The two we looked at for DD have a very competitive, academically focussed entrance procedure. I hope that doesn't sound horrible, he has completely different strengths to DD and what is right in a school for her will not be or him as they are very different.

I love this school, I want DD to go there more than anything. I love the ethos, it is single sex if that is relevant and I feel her talents will be nurtured there and she will leave believing she can do absolutely anything.

So my questions are, if you have DC at private school, did you make sacrifices and is it worth it? If you comfortably afford private school fees, would you still do it in our situation?

Please don’t be ‘guilted’ into it because she passed the entrance exam. It sounds like you think you will deprive her of an education if you don’t send he purely on the basis that she’s passed. Eldest DC at a very good and big single sex selective indie, passed first time, typical geek, were waiting on the exam results for the younger one but he is more able so it shouldn’t be a problem. Remember- the school is a business. To a certain extent the entrance exam is more about weeding out the behaviours they don’t want, wrt to intelligence they’re all bright enough.

I wouldn’t do it if I were you. We own, mortgage almost paid off, husband higher earner, i’m sahm, you get the picture, and even for us fees are a factor in everything we decide. I could go back to work to cover fees (does your husband work?) but with his business travel and very long school holidays it doesn’t work. If you have your heart set on it, move to the catchment of a better state school, expand your business (could your husband take on admin for example so you can get more work done? Can he sell your training?) to up your income and save for secondary x

Sorry just saw it is for secondary! That makes it difficult! What does your financial forecasting for your business say? That is your best bet for paying fees. What does your husband think? How big is the gap between child 1 and 2? Will you have a fees overlap?

I'm going to be brutally honest, when you consider this, the fact you have 2 children you have to calculate them both. My eldest is in what you would class as state boarding (We pay a parental contrubution) which over the year works out, after getting her home, £250 a month. Our household has £2900 a month. We don't go on 2 week all inclusive holidays, we do eurocamp deals etc.

BUT we are 2 years in.... if I had the choice she'd have been removed 1/2 way in 1st year. The policys are great, reality different. My daughter was relentlessly bullied for 1/2 a year by a spoilt brat in her room Sorted it eventually....but my heart broke, but DD Was adamant she wasn't leaving.

This year is much better and she is flourishing BUT they do yearly overseas excursions, £800 last year, she's just asked to go another £800 one..... and then there's the guilt tripping....maybe not necessarily her fault but just trying to keep up with the Jones's.

We've had 2 Christmas terms..... Omg xyz got an iPhone X, latest iPad, beats headphones etc...... my DD is realistic thankfully but that doesn't mean she escapes the bitchyness because she doesn't have the latest Vans or Adidas trainers (She is 11 btw).

We have another DD who can go in 4yrs.....she will have the same opportunities because I've accounted for it, BUT it comes at a price..... when that time comes, the holidays may not happen, we will both have to still work full time (want part of my original plan)

My youngest isn't showing as academically stronger than the eldest but she will have the same opportunities if she's decides that's what she wants (god help the school!) If I were you, whatever your going to pay, save at least half again into a seperate acct for the youngest.

And I did put paragraphs in!!

Our DC are going to go to a 'requires improvement' school for secondary. We are lucky that we live in a 'naice' area so the school gets excellent results and there are no major behaviour issues, it just doesn't push its very bright intake enough. And the local 6th forms are very good. But about 1/3 of her friends from primary are going to the local private school. We briefly looked at the costs but for 3DC we'd be spending one salary on school fees and I'd rather have a big house, nice holidays and a good pension. I'm not convinced private schools add that much value for kids like ours.

Yabvu

You can't prioritise your dd like this. You have 2 children and one cannot get special privileges over the other.

It is very unfair to your ds to dismiss his education like you have already done so. In addition he will be missing out in so many other non-educational ways while your dd benefits as he will also have to go without as the family will be on a very tight budget. No holidays, fewer treats, less extra curricular activities, no opportunities for tutoring, more stress within the family etc. Do you not see this as unfair?

You income does not sound very secure. I am unclear if you dh is in full time work yet? Is he? If not this should be a priority and then I would plan to move into an area with better state secondaries for both dc. Your reasons for not moving are not strong so you need to move as soon as possible, especially for your non-academic ds who may struggle even more than your dd at a poor secondary school.

Oh, and if you are worried about bullying don't assume private schools are exempt. Look at George Watsons.

100% worth it but (kindly) you can’t afford it. Fees go up twice a year - an ‘inflation’ style increase (has been up to 11%!!) and the yearly increments as they go into high years. And there are always ‘extras’ in the bill. Even if you don’t pay for the foreign trips, there is always a local trip, author, musician, charity etc. Not a week goes by without a letter saying we are organising something or other and we’ll just pop it on the bill. I’m very sympathetic because I think it’s worth every penny but if you can’t afford it, you just can’t.

Very interestingly a big study recently showed the school you went to had zero impact on your life chances (can’t think of the way they put it exactly). But it was exactly about was private school worth the cash and the outcome of the research was no. There was a radio 4 programme about it. I’m sure the decision is about more than just that though. Good luck.

I’m a Finance Manager for and independent school.

Parents in your position often have to withdraw their children after a few years and it’s really awful.

We have several that I’m constantly battling with and it’s abundantly clear they can’t afford it.

I have a similar income to you, slightly higher outgoings. Absolutely no way it would be comfortable financially.

All that needs happen is your car to breakdown, freezer break, you to be ill and you’re in the shit.

However, it’s a shame you didn’t get the bursary - you’d have qualified at our school.

If your local schools are shite - yes, it’s worth it.

But you can’t afford it. I’m not going to say there are lots of additional costs (because at my kids school there aren’t, it’s all included, and the uniform is no more than for the local secondary if you buy from the nearly new shop), but fees do go up every year, and if you are in rented your rent is going to increase soon due to changes to the letting agents fee structure being passed to landlords.

I would instead budget for extra curriculars to try and make sure DD gets similar opportunities to those she would have had at the school.

It is very unfair to your ds to dismiss his education like you have already done so. In addition he will be missing out in so many other non-educational ways while your dd benefits as he will also have to go without as the family will be on a very tight budget. No holidays, fewer treats, less extra curricular activities, no opportunities for tutoring, more stress within the family etc. Do you not see this as unfair?

Exactly this. And he doesn’t even get the “better” schooling to make up for it

I 100% would. These are the years that massively shape her as a person and this opportunity could make her life.

@Aurea If your DC is clever, they will do well wherever they are.

Completely disagree. So much depends on school, peer group, other opportunities on offer etc. Clever children can fall with with the 'wrong crowd' just as easily as less clever children can. Less clever children can do very well in an environment that brings out the best in them, in the same way that clever children can do very badly in an environment that brings out the worst in them. Unfortunately.

I'm in the reverse position OP. My eldest goes to the local high school. It's not a great school but she is bright and doesn't get involved in messing around etc. So far she is doing well. When she started it was OFSTED outstanding. It is now requires improvement in less than 4 years. If she was starting high school now then I would have looked further afield for a different school. But as long as she keeps on working hard I am happy for her to go there. On the other hand DD2 has a 50% scholarship to the local private school. I can't comment yet on if it is worth it (I had to return to work to pay the fees) and so far not as expensive for extras as I had thought. DD friendship group are of a similar financial position so I am lucky that the pressure isn't there from peers to go on the skiing trips etc. But it was a hard decision that I was offering one child something I couldn't offer the other. I struggled with it at the time and still do now to be honest. I justify that I will pay for older DD to go through uni. And that she doesn't mind. She wouldn't want to go herself now as she is settled where she is. Ultimately I couldn't deny DD2 something she worked hard for because DD1 hadn't down the same. But it's hard.

Both my older siblings went to excellent private schools. Just as they finished and headed off for uni, I was taking the entrance exams - I got a place but then my father was made redundant and so off to the local comp I went.

I’ve arguably achieved greater success in my career than either of my siblings, without the gold plated school CV. It really does depend on the child, my school was definitely average!

Obviously my father couldn’t help his financial situation at the time, however it did bother me during my school and university years as I couldn’t help but feel my siblings had advantages and experiences I did not.

As it turned out, none of that mattered (and maybe it spurred me on to work harder?) but to knowingly plan for one to attend knowing you can’t afford for the second seems very unfair, on both children.

If I could afford it I would so send my kids private . Hate myself for saying that !

But I don’t think you can afford it and you certainly can’t afford to send both

I would stick with local school and start mobilising a plan B if I were you
For moving near a good school and earning more

Sorry OP but I think it’s completely ridiculous to spend £12k+ a year on private school when you don’t even home your own home!!

It’s the equivalent of families taking kids to Disney land when they then can’t afford the heating bill for the rest of the year!

Yes it’s an ‘experience’ but Christ- teach your DD some fiscal responsibility!

Back in the 80's there was a bit of social engineering called the assisted places scheme.

Both me and my brother were beneficiaries of it. We were sent to the local fee paying school after junior school. When I went, I lost my old friends from the junior school as they saw me as a posh kid, the kids at the new school saw me as some kind of council estate scummer and I struggled with friendships at the new school. I became an outsider at both boarding school and home, this outsider mentality has affected my whole life, probably for the worse.

My brother threw himself into the new school and built a good life there. And has become extremely successful both professionally and personally.

Of course, if we'd both gone to the same bog standard comprehensive then our lives may have been the same anyway.

Although the scheme paid for the education, it did not pay for the extras so there were many extra-curricular activities we couldn't afford to do, despite my mum's best efforts to make more money.

Just calculated son leaves in the summer. His education from yr six to leaving has cost us 96k. That is with a small bursary. Plus school holiday trips, plus school uniform, plus insurances and other sundries brings it well over £100k. This is what you have to think about. We have done it three times. That is scary looking at it like this.

A couple of friends had to be withdrawn from private education for family reasons, they said it was hell to go into the state system as teenagers.

Look at how much the fees will rise over the years. We were paying 3k a term the first year. Now it is 6k a term yr 12 and 13. The fees go up 5% every year as an increase without fail.

Also, our fees rise around 4% per year. It’s a lot.

We have parents with 3 children at the school - over £60k per year and we’re only a prep - senior is even more costly.

I’ve taught in private and state schools. Private isn’t always the better choice for every child. Some state schools have a wider range of subjects at GCSE and better pastoral care than private schools.

Have you visited the state school and spoken to any parents who have children there at the moment? You like the private school but it doesn’t sound like you can afford it. I don’t think it will be worth the financial sacrifices that you would need to make.

Can’t believe you’re dismissing your ds like this! Shocking!

I don’t think you can afford it

We have sacrificed a lot by sending our eldest to private school, and it was very much worth it. Our youngest is currently in prep, and we are seriously considering private options again for secondary. There is far more to education than doing exams. Yes our eldest did very well and is now in a very good uni, but she has gained far more in other ways too. If it feels right, and it is doable, then go for it I say. Good luck.