After school detention - AIBU to say no

[Florasnotin]

DD and DS missed the school bus this morning. Completely my fault, I took their phones from them last night and forgot to set the alarm. They caught the public bus and were 15 mins late.

They've both been given an after school detention on Monday.

AIBU to say no. Punishment doesn't really fit the crime and it wasn't even their fault. I've always stood by the school when it comes to discipline but this seems overly harsh

That's different yum.
Querying and challenging a sanction for something a child didn't do is totally appropriate because staff can make mistakes and get it wrong.

They haven't in this situation. The OP prioritised having a quiet morning over getting her kids to school on time and now things the rule should apply to everyone but her children.
Personally, an after school detention for 1 late is a bit intense in my opinion, but that's the school rules and someone's opinion on a rule doesn't make it a wrong rule.

I thought it was the long hours, the unending paperwork, the moving goalposts and the constant assessments and scrutinising. I didn't realise it was parents saying 'er actually on this occasion i'm gonna say no'

That would be a parent contributing to the long hours and unending paperwork. Teacher sets detention per policy. Parent gets in contact. Teacher has to deal with parent. Teacher then either has unpleasant confrontation with parent and says the behaviour policy stands, or capitulates and now has to do the paperwork to cancel the detention, rearrange to lunchtime or whatever.

So yes, you’d be part of the problem.

I’ve had two parental emails this week querying why their DC has been given a demerit. It says on the demerit ‘chatting in class’. But no, they wanted more info. Did others get one because unfair. DC said ‘I was only just...’. FFS just let it be, because it all builds up.

Wow. The way some posts on MN turn nasty is unbelievable! OP from your responses it's obvious you are doing your damndest to do the right thing by your family and yourself (let's not forget that mums are people too!). In relation to the original AIBU question, if the school's sanction (or however they phrase it) policy does not state that lateness deserves an after school detention you are absolutely within your rights to politely speak to the school and state your position.

I don’t think this thread has turned particularly nasty. OP says AIBU, most people say yes you are, OP says well I don’t agree. Not sure what they posted if they didn’t want to hear different opinions.

Yum, challenging unfair treatment is fine. I did this when a school administrator had taken it upon themselves to go into the form rooms in form tutor time and measure the length of girls' skirts and legs and discussing loudly in front of the whole form these vital statistics. This was in the name of making sure that the skirts were not too short, which is fair enough as a policy in itself, but not the way these two (off their own bats) went about enforcing it.In addition, they told each girl that they picked (including my DD) that if THEY didn't cooperate then THEY THEMSELVES could go and find a new school. That is a conversation the school should have with the parents but no parents were informed of this at all.

I had a nice phone call from the headmaster a couple of days later apologising profusely and saying that as soon as he realised what these two were doing he had called them into his office and put an immediate stop to it.

It is how you handle things that is important. In general, the rules apply to everyone. It is fair though to challenge blatantly idiocy or unfairness. Everyone can get it wrong sometimes - parents and teachers/schools alike.

I am 100% behind your stance. I would and have set had the exact same arguments. My children have only ever stayed for after school detention when I agree with it.
Well I am sure the teachers really appreciate how you are now taking on responsibility for discipline in the school.🙄 this kind of parental attitude is exactly the reason why so many kids walk around schools now like they own the place. Because they know that as soon as the teacher imposes some discipline, mum will come running to complain.

Topseyt - yes that does sound awful but in fairness is a completely different situation to the OPs....

I’m still fascinated with these theoretical non-punitive punishments. Makes no sense to me.
Dictionary definition!
punitive
adjective
inflicting or intended as punishment.

The thing is, it's all very well chuntering about mean teachers, but individual teachers don't set the policy. That'll be the Head.

As a classroom teacher, I don't care if kids do detention for being late to school; I do care that they attend my lessons on time, & I'm glad the school policy is strict on this even when it's my kids.

But the way the school behaviour policy re lateness is set & administered is not my job.

If a student arrives late, they are met by senior management on arrival, told off (& obviously it's checked that there isn't genuine mitigating circumstances in the form of a real disaster).

Then they are held in the cafeteria until next bell so they do not disrupt a lesson by arriving late.

Don't blame teachers - we are busy teaching, didn't set the policy, & can't excuse your kid because it was your fault - it's not our call.

Take it up with the SLT, who if they are any good, will say 'sorry - not interested - that's the sanction'.

It's also a bit pointless saying 'well I'm not going to let my child do the detention'.

Again, decent school leadership will just say 'fine - missed detention = a day in isolation, then'.

If the SLT are not taking a reasonably firm line, you are likely to have bigger problems with real behaviour issues not being tackled because that horrible bully who is picking on your child? His/her mum definitely doesn't approve of school sanctions, & that spineless SLT are giving into them too.

No you are not being unreasonable! I’d say no to that.

The oh but my kid normally has great attendance types need to look at this teacher poll.

hughjackmanswife
It's not nasty to point out that if you don't want your children to be sanctioned for being late then you should take reasonable steps to get them to school on time.

In this case the OP removed the children's ability to set their own alarms and then chose to prioritise a quiet morning over getting them to school on time.

It's not rocket science.

No way should they do that detention. Totally out their control. Certainly ohone the call, explain, and state they won't be doing it.

(Usually I am ALL for kids doing detentions. But this was not at all their fault).

I’m a bit puzzled by everyone who says the children should do the detention. Ok, so we all know life isn’t fair but I think giving detentions to children who were late due o someone else’s actions isnt fair or helpful. If they had been in the usual bus and it had broken down or been late, would you expect them to do detention then? I doubt think so.

But I would be getting alarm clocks for the children and yourself. And do call the school to explain.

The issue is that every child who is late disrupts the learning of the rest of the class. They’ve missed what the teacher was talking about, it distracts the class, the teacher has to spend time amending the register etc. Yes it wasn’t their fault but the point is they’ve still disrupted the rest of the class. And if you let one child off, what about all the other excuses? Where do you draw the line?

PinkGin24 & the school will say: 'well, they will be reminded to attend the detention at the close of the school day. Any student who doesn't attend will be placed in isolation the following day'...or whatever the follow up sanction is.

Giraffey1
If they are on a school bus with other students and the bus breaks down, they arrive late with all the other students and school processes it as that with no sanction because to do anything else would be ridiculous.

If students get a public service bus that gets them to school late then that's totally different.
If a student sleeps in then that's totally different.
If a family don't leave enough time to get to school so they're late because 'traffic' then that's a case of should have left more time, but if a number of students and 10 staff are all late due to a big accident on the dual carriageway then that's obviously different.

When people have children and send them to school they are signing up to a set of rules and expectations. One of them is being on time to school. If the OP wanted her quiet morning then there are many alternatives to let the kids get themselves up. Equally, on running late the decision was made to get the bus which would make them late over an option to get them in on time.
At the end of the day, they decided their quiet morning was more important than the kids getting to school on time. There is a sanction for being late. Don't want your kids sanctioned for lateness = get them in on time.

Girafey, if it is a school contract bus that breaks down or is running late for any reason then there is no consequence because the problem is usually beyond the control of anyone concerned (breakdown, roadworks or anything else obstructing the roads).

My DD is at a grammar school for sixth form, so not a catchment area school and there is no contract bus. Like many of the students, she has to travel some distance and uses public transport. The school's policy is just to inform them as soon as possible if transport problems occur on any given day. It isn't a problem. They would know who the piss takers might be.

Genuine question here as my kids aren't at secondary school yet, do schools really not even have to let you know they are keeping your child behind? It may be because my kids are still so small but I'd have thought if my child was an hour late home and I had no idea why I'd be really worried? Surely for safety reasons you should be at least notified? God I'm going to hate having teenagers I can tell!

They don't legally have to notify you but it's good practice to, & I'd say reasonable to complain that you were worried or unnecessarily inconvenienced if they don't!

In practice most schools run a couple of detentions a week so staff can supervise on a rota.

Typical model would be: standard detention on a Monday for anyone who did something relatively minor (eg lateness) the previous week - so you would have been emailed by Friday; serious detention with senior management later in week, maybe Thursday, for things important enough that school would have needed to contact you anyway - this might include skipping the lower key detention. Anyone who misses that would be in isolation on Friday/parents called in.

The 'not needing to let you know' thing is basically because some parents will claim not to have been informed & kick off, not because it's actually sensible to randomly keep kids without home knowing.

School should have an automated email system or similar which just sends out a standard letter if your child is in the first level of detention.

Oh don't be daft, BlueTrees123.

OP just sounds like she had an off day. I've been there. Most parents of teens have.

It's no big deal. Detention served, everyone moves on.

I don’t see an issue with removing phones for young teens tbh. Few self regulate and the op would only be judged if she allowed them to be on them half the night and sleep deprived.
Also forgetting to set the alarm is an oversight that I’m sure we’ve all been guilty of.
But I would have driven them in the morning. And I think the op feels guilty that she has caused her kids to have the detention.
But I wouldn’t challenge it on the grounds it isn’t their fault. My kids are in primary and virtually nothing they get into trouble for is their fault. Lateness, forgotten sports kit, reading not signed etc all my fault but the kids get punished. It’s how the majority of schools work because they can’t directy punish the parents.

Purplecrowbar thanks, the thought of letting go of knowing where my kids are all the time scares me but something I'm going to have to get used to in years to come

Op - it is totally unfair I agree but I think in this instance I'd probably put it down to one of those things. We try and teach our kids that sometimes you just have to put up with it and not over think things. I agree that you need to teach kids it's ok to challenge things they don't agree with but in a 'pick your battles' kind of way, this isn't some huge wrongdoing, it's a bit unfair but will be forgotten about.
Don't feel bad for needing a break this morning, we all do from time to time

Frazzledmum123
They dont have to give notice of detentions and don't have to notify parents (probably due to the sizable minority of parents who still think it's fine to pick and choose when behaviour policies apply to their children).

Generally schools do notify parents, usually by letter or phone call for non-same day detentions (places I've worked that have done same day detentions had an auto text set up with the info sent out). Break/lunch ones don't get sent home.

The most typical situation is an after school detention is issued with a letter to the student to go home with 24 or 48 hours notice of the detention and sometimes a phone call as well.

Generally, school policies are fairly clear and if your children are doing what they need to do then they are unlikely to end up with after school detentions. E.g. I can count the number of students I've given after school detentions to I've given since September on my fingers.