After school detention - AIBU to say no

[Florasnotin]

DD and DS missed the school bus this morning. Completely my fault, I took their phones from them last night and forgot to set the alarm. They caught the public bus and were 15 mins late.

They've both been given an after school detention on Monday.

AIBU to say no. Punishment doesn't really fit the crime and it wasn't even their fault. I've always stood by the school when it comes to discipline but this seems overly harsh

"being a teacher does not automatically grant you some kind of saint status and allow you to sail through life without being questioned."

Of course not. I am happy to have my decisions challenged by peers, SLT, Ofsted, sensible parents who quite rightly approach me with genuine issues.

Just not idiot parents who waste my time and theirs with ridiculous complaints, unaware that they themselves are contributing to eroding standards.

If a child is late, the teacher must repeat part of the lesson. Maybe for the whole class, who would rather be moving on. Maybe just for that pupil, when they could be supporting someone more deserving.

I'm always astonished at the amount of independence that is expected on here. While I was at school I was a child. My mum expected to make sure I was up, make everyone breakfast, give me dinner money, clean uniform etc. She also made sure I'd taken letters out of my bag, done homework and packed whatever was needed. I did have an alarm but my mum was ultimately responsible for me getting out on time and correctly equipped. In this scenario she'd have either driven me to school or sent me on the public bus but phoned the school so they knew I would be late and why. I have my own house now and manage fine.

Jalpie: “Believe it or not, schools in other parts of the world manage just fine without the level of micro-management that UK schools deem necessary”

I was only talking about this to a friend who is not British and didn’t go through our education system. They didn’t have any real detention system in her home country’s schools. They didn’t need it as there was respect for state education and the Opportunity it gave to better yourself, as long as you put the work in. With that came respect for staff, their place of authority
in the school and the expectations they had of the pupils. Pupils had a very strong work ethic. My friend can’t believe how little homework they get in this country in secondary. She said in her home country it is hard work in school, then hours of hard work each day when you get home. It’s just what everyone did, she said, and they all got on with it without complaining. All pupils knew it was what was needed to achieve wellin school.

She is absolutely horrified at what I witness and experience daily in my secondary school and can’t understand the total lack of work ethic in many of the pupils.

I see pupils arriving in England and coming to my school polite and respectful and wanting to do well, despite hardly speaking any of the language, and it’s very sad to witness the confusion on their faces when they see our own English pupils running wild and being verbally (and increasingly physically) abusive towards staff who are just there to teach them their subject.

It’s the same when groups of exchange kids visit from France and Spain. They just seem much more mature.

Apart from the attitudes of the pupils themselves, other countries don’t have the same level of scrutiny as Ofsted bestows on English schools. It’s just impossible to argue “well in X country they seem to manage without trivial rules and micromanaging” because they just don’t compare with English society and the increasing politicisation of our education system.

Now, to me, it is wider society problems that are causing many of the issues with behaviour in schools. That isn’t an easy fix. That, along with the lack of boundaries at home in many cases, means that in many schools teachers are simply fire fighting issues and problems and just trying to get through to the end of the day without someone kicking another pupil’s head in. And THAT’s where behaviour policies have to be strongly enforced.

No-one will retort that our education system in England is great, jalpie, because it’s the total opposite of thatnow. It’s a complete mess and the pupils rule the roost in a lot of schools. The lovely pupils who DO want to learn and who DO behave themselves are the ones who suffer because of the strict behaviour policies needed to try and stop our current school system imploding.

Fucking hell. Some of these replies!! some people writing full on paragraphs about a mum forgetting to set an alarm. Shame on you! 🤣🤣 no I wouldn’t let the DC’s do the detention! Volunteer as tribute OP

Good God there are a lot of perfect parents on here, never slept in and been late for anything, eh ok then 😂

OP I wpuld have phone the school, my kids wouldn't be sitting wringing lines after school as punishment for something that wasn't their fault.

This is just one of those threads where 95% of posters jump on the kick the OP and tell them what a failure they are and their children are snowflakes. Unbelievable 🙄

Phone is smashed. Which is why there are so many typos.

"How would you feel if your DCs teacher was late to work?
Or your hairdresser didn't turn up for your appointment ?
Or the supermarket wasn't open because the staff had overslept?

Such a crazy world, indeed!"

• Are we still talking about school kids being late for school? How important that we teach them all to be good little capitalist drones, who if, god forbid they sleep in should be PUNISHED for it.

And It's happened plenty of times, I survived. I understand that shit happens and in a world with almost constant stimulation and activity people may need that extra 15 minutes sleep.

"Punishments exist for lateness because it is disruptive for your child and the other children in the class when they turn up late. Would you be happy if your child was regularly missing out on class time with the teacher because other children were turning up late?"

I honestly think some of you genuinely believe school is the best way a child can become educated. Have you ever sat in a classroom?? 😂😂😂

How would you feel if your DCs teacher was late to work?
Or your hairdresser didn't turn up for your appointment ?
Or the supermarket wasn't open because the staff had overslept

As a one off, it may be inconvenient but they may have overslept, had a problem with a child or elderly parent that had delayed them or any number of other reasons for being late, so I would hope they wouldn't be punished. I was late for work once because a funeral procession was in front of me. I was probably 30 minutes late, I shouldn't have to leave 30 minutes earlier in case that happened again. It never happened again in 3 years. Obviously if it's persistent then there are policies in place in the workplace to deal with it and I would see that as fair that they would be dealt with appropriately.

"Good God there are a lot of perfect parents on here, never slept in and been late for anything, eh ok then."

Anyone can oversleep, but then they usually just accept any negative consequences as a fair cop.

"people may need that extra 15 minutes sleep."

But you can see how a teacher who is ok with her students drifting in whenever they want to, would soon find most of her students doing that? Then they're missing the beginning of the lesson and don't know what's happening so the teacher must repeat it all again, or spend the rest of the lesson catching them up.

"I honestly think some of you genuinely believe school is the best way a child can become educated."

For those unable to home educate, it's all we've got. And keeping hundreds, sometimes a couple of thousand, teenagers organised is quite tricky without having - and enforcing, and showing them that you're enforcing - some rules. They're not usually arbitrary, they're there for a good reason even if that's not immediately apparent to someone who doesn't work in education. Believe it or not, most teachers would rather be teaching than punishing children, but you do have to be consistent if you want a policy to work.

Anyway, op has already said her dc will do the detention so it's all moot now.

CurlyhairedAssassin
Very true on the comparisons to overseas. It's not just school set ups, it's a whole culture difference.

The way some overseas schools work wouldn't work in the UK because our attitude to education as a country isn't that good in many places and there's a lot of adults now who (having been allowed to do what they liked when they were in school, limited boundaries, pick and mix rules) have their own kids in school and reinforce this 'I'm so cool and anti establishment' thing.
The only difference is that by y11 those same parents suddenly want the red carpet rolling out, the intervention, the teachers staying back to do 1-1. And so that group of students learns they can behave how they like and someone will sort it for them because they are entitled to succeed regardless of their own actions.

It's why cross cultural comparisons are rarely helpful.

"The only difference is that by y11 those same parents suddenly want the red carpet rolling out, the intervention, the teachers staying back to do 1-1"

Yes they usually come to realise their mistake eventually, when their dc is failing at school and giving them a hard time at home, with their future looking increasingly bleak.

It's sad for the kids, but I find it quite satisfying to see the parents who argued points of discipline in Y7 becoming increasingly aware that their parenting style may have been the single biggest contributor to their child becoming a massive PITA to everyone around them, parents included by this point.

Yabu. You made them late by agreeing to set the alarm and forgetting to do it. You couldn't be bothered to prevent this by taking them in the car. Presumably you signed the parental contract report re. sanctions when they joined the school. You should let them do the afterschool detention but apologise to your DC. Generally if you cause a problem, you should sort it out but the time to do this was on the day and to take them by car. I'm sorry but I don't really rate parents with your perspective, you're not putting your DC first.

Then why didn't you take them in?

grammar
Because they wanted a quiet morning.

Part of me wonders if the reason they're so willing to be cross with school is because they know they could have easily prevented the situation from arising.

Gloomy: “'s sad for the kids, but I find it quite satisfying to see the parents who argued points of discipline in Y7 becoming increasingly aware that their parenting style may have been the single biggest contributor to their child becoming a massive PITA to everyone around them, parents included by this point.”

Quite. Happening more and more. Just on Friday my school phoned a parent about a sanction a pupil got for swearing at a teacher. What was the parent’s response? “I don’t wanna hear about it!” And put the phone down!

We’d had many parents who themselves don’t know how to interact with people in the appropriate manner. Their child has behaved badly in school so they come up to school to what, apologise? No, they swear and shout in the headmaster’s face.

I mean there really is no hope.

I know my examples don’t have any similarity to the OP’s situation. I just wanted to point out the severe lack of discipline and respect on show in many schools these days, by both pupils and their parents.

Their child has behaved badly in school so they come up to school to what, apologise? No, they swear and shout in the headmaster’s face.

I know this happens, but I still feel shocked when I hear about it. I don't know where you'd even begin with it. The kids just don't stand a chance and that makes me sad. They may now be 15 year old cheeky intimidating little shits but at some point they were once a small child probably being treated much the same as the headmaster by their parents, being shouted and swore at. Having parents like that, the children would be highly unlikely to do well in school and be respectful.

I don't think there's anything sanctimonious about criticising a parent who chooses to deliberately make their DC late for school, despite it being their fault and having an easily available option to take them in on time.

It's the height of poor, selfish, unacceptable parenting, and it deserved to be called out.

I personally don't have a strong opinion on op deciding not to run them in in the car, it sounded like a rare day off and she didn't want to do it. She's already said they've got a good attendance record, that it's never happened before. Just a bit rich to then complain when they receive a sanction for lateness. I think the right response would've been 'sorry kids, my fault, I'll pick you up after detention and we'll have your favourite for tea to make it up to you.'

TBF she has since said that they are doing the detention.

Maybe she just felt a bit guilty, because it was her fault the alarm wasn't set; people do look for someone else to blame when they feel a bit guilty ime.

gloomy
I couldn't care either way if the OP ran them in the car or not if they accepted that if the children were late there were sanctions.
I think most people with an opinion over the OP giving a lift comes down to how annoyed they were with the school over a situation they could have easily prevented multiple times.

It does actually sound that this detention will work. Because as a consequence the children's parent will think twice before allowing them to be late for school.

Volunteer as tribute OP
Seems only fitting.