Michael Jackson and the new documentary

[joystir59]

Leaving Neverland, being shown at the Sundance film festival and in the spring on Channel 4....I love his music and have believed he was vilified by the racist media, and by greedy individuals and families after his money; but am really not so sure of his innocence any more. I guess that's my aibu- that we have to listen to his accusers don't we? I was sexually abused as a ternager, and not believed. It was a profoundly damaging experience.

I watched that video, the giggling makes uncomfortable viewing.

Urgh.

Oprah Winfrey will be showing the documentary on her OWN network along with a feature show of her interviewing Safechuck and Robson.

I think (hope) her support of the documentary will be the start of the tide really turning against MJ.

*Two really interesting websites that I found yesterday when I read the story of the documentary.

mjandboys.wordpress.com/michaeljacksonsvictims/

www.mjfacts.com

I think you have to do some mental gymnastics to state that he's innocent tbh.*

OMG How many red flags did people need for gods sake.

But it's odd that some kids who spent a lot of time with him said nothing happened.

I don't get this. Paedophiles don't generally abuse every kid they have access too. I don't think testimony from some boys saying he never touched them should have any bearing on a case where a boy alleges he did.

That video of him giggling. How fucking arrogant was he. He knew he was untouchable.

After watching it last night it made me fully feel sick, he knew exactly what he was doing all this pretending to be like a child but he knew adult things etc was wrong to do to another child, disgusting piece of shit

I watched both parts of the documentary. I believe them.

I don't think there is any doubt that he was a predatory paedophile. Question is: Can that fact be separated from his wonderful music?

Why have a judicial system at all if even you're found innocent you're still guilty and vice versa

In court, there is no 'innocent' verdict. It's 'guilty' or 'not guilty'. I really struggle to take seriously anyone who doesn't realise this basic fact.

Exactly. All 'not guilty' means is that there wasnit enough reliable evidence available at that time to pass a guilty verdict. It doesn't mean the accused was necessarily innocent.

Why don't they polygraph James Safechuck and Wade Robson?

Polygraphs are not at all reliable. They shouldn't be used at all. The results can be affected by many factors.

I've watched the people against o j thing.
Justice isn't always carried out.

I watched part two of the documentary last night.

The abuse really coming to the surface and hitting the victims fully once they experienced fatherhood really rang true for me.

You can bury your own feelings deep and tell yourself all kinds of things to avoid the truth but when you look in the eyes of your own children and realise how innocent and vulnerable they are - it makes you question how people treated you when you were a child. And the feeling that you would never ever let anyone do the things that were done to you to your child is extremely powerful and shocking to experience.

Those men were totally failed by the adults around them. I wish them peace and happiness.

@MrsChollySawcutt couldn't agree more.
It all turned my stomach to such a degree that I've felt traumatised all day since watching it even though I actually left the room when the men were describing the abuse.
What a calculated, manipulative predatory bastard MJ was.

Not just the adults but also the criminal justice system.

Young children exposed to vicious lawyers cross examining them.
Maybe they should also have Been provided with child psychologist s?? Seeing as they may have been at risk? Experts in those fields to help the children.

Used again as mere pawns to now defend the man

Micheal famous non existent childhood was entwined with having to share rooms with his brothers who were shagging women.

In Bashir interview there's also moment when talking about his dad's abuse... hint he may have been sexually abused by Joseph.

Having watched the documentary and Oprah interview over the weekend the question in my mind was not, 'Do I believe them?' but more, 'How can anyone NOT believe them?'

MJ was a monster. I'm sure we'll be hearing more from other men before too much longer.

Watched it yesterday and have felt sick ever since.

How can anyone still be defending him?

And as for still playing his music - Gary Glitter is firmly off the play list, animal hospital is no longer on repeat. The same should happen now.

I suspect that the family are defending him so vociferously because, if him music stops, they won’t be getting royalties

What worries me, who would dare to come forward now with other abuse stories or collaborating evidence after seeing how hated and vilified these poor boys are in the press? You would have to be amazingly brave to do so after this shitstorm that is happening in social media and Everywhere else. Plus those that worked for him who maybe had some inkling of events would be crucified if they admitted it now. All so heartbreaking.

What strikes me is how gullible everyone (including a much younger me) was. Everyone fell for the whole, “Oh, he hangs out with young boys and sleeps with them in his bed because he didn’t have a good childhood”.

It’s just such complete bullshit- loads of people have shit and/or abusive childhoods. It doesn’t make them try to relive their childhoods by spending their adult lives playing with children. Everyone was just so stupid and those boys were essentially abused in plain sight of the world. And then we vilify them again for not immediately reporting the abuse, when it was noticed by his bodyguards etc and no one stopped it.

The public were his enablers.

Agreed, it somehow feels as though we were all complicit. I remember watching (as a teenager) the reports of him skipping about with those boys in Neverland and never giving a thought to the fact that it was odd.
Didn't Oprah do many interviews and special shows with him? This must show how utterly convincing he must have been, she is an abuse survivor herself so you'd think she'd question his behaviour?

I also thought he was innocent back when it all started to emerge (I must have been 10? 11?)

But look at how things have changed - and how many people have been found guilty of abuse: Glitter, Saville, Harris. And now Weinstein and R Kelly are in the frame. We’re more likely now to believe that famous people are doing these things because a precedent has been set.

There's a very telling video on youtube where his sister, Latoya, states in 1993 in a press interview that what MJ is doing is wrong and questionable (regarding surrounding himself around young boys all the time) but was it was quashed by the whole Jackson family.

@missyfafa wow yes it completely matches up to what the victims were saying.
How horrifying that the parents were so willing to hand their kids over.